Drifting - Ins & Outs with Supras vs. Others

Cool project - really like the look of these kitted up

 

 

 

What reason do you run them backwards? I put a set on backwards on my S13 by mistake a few years back on a spare set of rims for drifting - just had cheap crap ditchfinder tyres on, seemed to really chew them up like that. Was an airfield type surface (Crail up here).

 

Back then there wasn't a UK championship when I had my S13 and also when I drifted my JZA70 so I was just arsing about.

 

Would really like to get into drifting properly now but I've got no suitable car at the moment so contemplating using a Supra TT manual. Any opinions on using a MKIV Supra?

 

For example, I drifted a friends S14a and found it was a much more natural drift car than my S13 so came to the conclusion that was the one to use back then - I'm still tempted to go that way but now most of the S14/a's seem to be riddled with rust and I can't be arsed with that along with the less reliable nature (compared with 2JZ's) of the SR20DET's. There's also power and torque vs. weight to consider - the Supra being heavier but with the higher output engine with lots of scope for more power whilst maintaining reliability.

 

Cost wise a Supra TT manual is more to buy in the 1st place vs. an S14a by a good chunk but I'd say worth it to get a rust free shell with a reliable high output base setup. Re-shelling, should the worst happen, isn't too big an issue with NA's available from around £2k now.

 

What's the best route into drifting now assuming I have a car to start with? BDC license day at Knockhill then I can compete if I can obtain a license?

 

Cheers,

 

Brian.

Hi,

It because of the way the tyre is constructed, most directional tyres tend to delaminate when drifting. If you run them the "correct" way if they delaminate they peel from the centre out. Where as if you run them the "rong" way they dont and it reduces delamination drematicly!

The best way to get into it is get any car thats rear wheel drive that your not worried about damaging, a bmw E36 is a good base as cheap and they drift well. Dont use your supra if your worried about the paint work. There are a few drift supras about but to get them up to a good competition standard alot of work is needed, infact the two high end supras i know of both have nissan steering racks in.

S13 and s14 are your best bet thogh, they both drift just aswell, your mates must have just had better setup than your s13. S13 with out rust is hard to find these days unless you get an import, you get and extra bonus then as they come with the sr20det, which is a much better engine than the UKs13, but youl pay the price for one of these. You can pick up a half decent s14 with basic mods for £1.5k these days. The sr20det is and extreamly reliable engine, just as much as the JZ's, people prefer the JZ's due to the torque and high power on farly stock engines. Iv ran an sr for the last 6 years, 4 of them years over 400hp and the last year 500hp, out of a 2ltr thats prety impresive and was super reliable. A stock sr will cope with 400hp no problems, but you wont need any more than 300hp while your learning. Id get a good year of practice days under your belt befor you try to go for competition.

Thanks for the info!

Hi,

 

It because of the way the tyre is constructed, most directional tyres tend to delaminate when drifting. If you run them the "correct" way if they delaminate they peel from the centre out. Where as if you run them the "rong" way they dont and it reduces delamination drematicly!

So wrong way round on the back and correct way on the front? What about which tyres to use in general - is it still a case of anything will do up to serious competition level? Have seen ads for Maxxis drift tyres etc. now.

The best way to get into it is get any car thats rear wheel drive that your not worried about damaging, a bmw E36 is a good base as cheap and they drift well. Dont use your supra if your worried about the paint work. There are a few drift supras about but to get them up to a good competition standard alot of work is needed, infact the two high end supras i know of both have nissan steering racks in.

Not enough power in the E36's for me and I don't know 'em - I know Supras and SX's. If using a Supra I'd look for as cheap as possible a TT manual that had lowish miles but bodywork condition unimportant with drifting in mind and potential damage.

Any further info on what the Supra is lacking to make it drift at competition level? Why Nissan racks, for more steering lock or for another reason? I just want to get an idea of what needs changing other than the usual stuff (Coilovers, 2-way diff etc.).

S13 and s14 are your best bet thogh, they both drift just aswell, your mates must have just had better setup than your s13. S13 with out rust is hard to find these days unless you get an import, you get and extra bonus then as they come with the sr20det, which is a much better engine than the UKs13, but youl pay the price for one of these. You can pick up a half decent s14 with basic mods for £1.5k these days.

Both cars were BPU kinda level - I just found the S14 much more natural in terms of balance and that it had more steering lock which helped loads. Also the higher torque lower down over my CA18DET was noticeably useful to keep drifts going as speeds slowed.

The sr20det is and extreamly reliable engine, just as much as the JZ's, people prefer the JZ's due to the torque and high power on farly stock engines. Iv ran an sr for the last 6 years, 4 of them years over 400hp and the last year 500hp, out of a 2ltr thats prety impresive and was super reliable. A stock sr will cope with 400hp no problems, but you wont need any more than 300hp while your learning. Id get a good year of practice days under your belt befor you try to go for competition.

Not sure I agree - I was part of the SX scene up here a few years back and recall many S14/a / SR20DET owners with spray bar related issues, head damage as a result of that and the economy cam lobe design, really tappety heads from the hydraulic tappets needing replaced, head gaskets going, VVT rattles and oil leaks etc. Also builds for power needed cylinder liners, different head gaskets, lash killer kits for the heads as well as the usual different turbo, fuelling, ECU tuning. That's before we talk about gearboxes - they're all too easy to kill in my experience especially with drift type abuse.

Contrast that to the 2JZ-GTE / v160 Getrag combo which is pretty bulletproof on the reliability front and £ for £, factoring in reliability and level of power / torque I'd say you're much better off with the Toyota parts.

Which brings me to... know of any off the shelf kits to put a 2JZ-GTE / v160 into an S14a? I know a while back there were kits on the go to fit the gearboxes attached to RB25DET's in RWD Skylines and VG30DETTs in 300ZX's to the SR20DET's in the S14/a's to address the weak standard gearboxes - thinking maybe an S14a with a transplanted engine / box is a good way to go for a reliable drift setup if it's not too much hassle to do.

Cheers,

Brian.

Have split this conversation out from Polo's project thread to keep it on topic.

Input welcome!

I personally think a supra is a good car to start with my "drift" version has cost little more than a 200sx to build and will have 500+ bhp and hopefully be reliable. For the same money I would have 400 bhp from an s14 and be changing gearboxes and driveshafts every 5 minutes.

Judging by the info and the name this has to be a sxoc member lol, welcome to the club fella.

I personally think a supra is a good car to start with my "drift" version has cost little more than a 200sx to build and will have 500+ bhp and hopefully be reliable. For the same money I would have 400 bhp from an s14 and be changing gearboxes and driveshafts every 5 minutes.

That's very much where I'm coming from - I know both these cars well and for the no hassle factor the Supra is streets ahead IMO. Can you comment on the essential changes that need to be made to a Supra TT for it to drift well - steering rack? (as per Polo's observation on current drift Supras), suspension arms, that kind of thing?

Go for the JZX series...they are awesome drift machines. Brilliant to learn in as they are so easy to drift. I've been drifting mine quite seriously for 18 months and only now am I wanting to take the car further with chassis tuning, ie more lock on steering, adjustable arms etc. Can be had for £4-6000 all ready to go drifting.

A Supra is a big old beast to get sliding properly

A Supra is a big old beast to get sliding properly

I have done already with a JZA80 and a heavier JZA70 - OK I'm not any pro drifter but I could link turns in both and keep it going for a length of time.

That's interesting on the JZX's Matt - you mean Chasers and MarkII's with the 1JZ-GTE in? Those cars are heavier again than a JZA80 and won't have as much low down torque, rare single turbo VVTi 1JZ not withstanding. Is there anything that makes those a better platform than a JZA80?

Can you comment on the essential changes that need to be made to a Supra TT for it to drift well - steering rack? (as per Polo's observation on current drift Supras), suspension arms, that kind of thing?

I have fitted a hydraulic handrake which seem to work well with the stock J spec calipers.

I have fitted a Kaaz two way again only slightly more costly than a 200sx.

To get more lock I have iniatially gone with home made 6mm spacers between the steering rod and rack. This gives me approx the same lock as an s14 with tein arms fitted. The supra also has an advantage here in having thick 12mm arms as standard where as the 200sx's are 8ish and need to be upgraded to the thicker tein ones to stop the arms bending.

Mark Luney runs a top level drift supra and my understanding is to get the next level of lock needed for top level drifting the hub needs modifying to effectively shorten the steering arm on the hub. At this point the antiroll bar pickup also needs moving out of the way and wheel spacers to move the wheel away from contact with the arch (exactly the same as you would with a 200sx).

This with above spacer mod gives enough lock for Luney to beet Phill Morrisons DW s15 in quite a few of this years top level drift events.

If you look at drfting in Sweden and Netherlands the Supra is very popular and very competitive.

Go for the JZX series...they are awesome drift machines. Brilliant to learn in as they are so easy to drift. I've been drifting mine quite seriously for 18 months and only now am I wanting to take the car further with chassis tuning, ie more lock on steering, adjustable arms etc. Can be had for £4-6000 all ready to go drifting.

Would love a JZX but they are rare over here and getting bits is a problem. I managed to build my car up from a 750 rolling shell which you would be able to do with a JZX.

Thanks David, that's an interesting insight. What did you fashion the spacers from and is there an off the shelf alternative? What about Geo adjustment over stock - particularly necessary? I know camber adjustment isn't available via top mounts like with the SX's because of our double wishbone suspension design. Does this become limiting in this respect?

I'm thinking a good starter formula would be:

- Supra TT Manual

- FIA approved Bucket Seat(s) / Harnesses

- Rear Strut Brace to attach the Harnesses to

- Dished Steering Wheel

- Hyraulic Handbrake

- BPU power mods

- Walbro or Bosch Pump

- FMIC

- Uprated Radiator - Koyo, Fluidyne or similar

- HSD Coilovers

- Extra lock mod as described by you

- Kaaz or similar 2-way LSD

Optionally for smoother power delivery whilst drifting:

- True Twin conversion (parallel Turbo operation) with Syvecs ECU to do it properly.

You'd then be set up for going single turbo for more power as needed with a suitable fuel system (larger injectors, lines, fuel pulsation dampner bypass) along with a single kit.

To compete in BDC you'd then be looking at the safety related stuff, I'm not sure on this bit so please add / amend:

- FIA approved Roll Cage

- Battery cut-off switch and bonnet pull mounted accessible to Marshalls

- Tow Eye accessible to Marshalls (spec?)

- FIA approved Race Suit

- FIA approved Helmet

- FIA approved Gloves

- FIA approved Boots

I think I'm getting to I'd like to create a 'how-to' list for drifting a Supra in this respect.

Thanks David, that's an interesting insight. What did you fashion the spacers from and is there an off the shelf alternative? What about Geo adjustment over stock - particularly necessary? I know camber adjustment isn't available via top mounts like with the SX's because of our double wishbone suspension design. Does this become limiting in this respect?

 

I'm thinking a good starter formula would be:

 

- Supra TT Manual

- FIA approved Bucket Seat(s) / Harnesses

- Rear Strut Brace to attach the Harnesses to

- Dished Steering Wheel

- Hyraulic Handbrake

- BPU power mods

- Walbro or Bosch Pump

- FMIC

- Uprated Radiator - Koyo, Fluidyne or similar

- HSD Coilovers

- Extra lock mod as described by you

- Kaaz or similar 2-way LSD

 

Optionally for smoother power delivery whilst drifting:

 

- True Twin conversion (parallel Turbo operation) with Syvecs ECU to do it properly.

 

You'd then be set up for going single turbo for more power as needed with a suitable fuel system (larger injectors, lines, fuel pulsation dampner bypass) along with a single kit.

 

To compete in BDC you'd then be looking at the safety related stuff, I'm not sure on this bit so please add / amend:

 

- FIA approved Roll Cage

- Battery cut-off switch and bonnet pull mounted accessible to Marshalls

- Tow Eye accessible to Marshalls (spec?)

- FIA approved Race Suit

- FIA approved Helmet

- FIA approved Gloves

- FIA approved Boots

 

I think I'm getting to I'd like to create a 'how-to' list for drifting a Supra in this respect.

For the steering mod I cant remember the size, but I bought I think I used 12mm internal 3mm wall steel tube and machined a 6mm spacer from this. The alternative is to turn down the outer of the steering rod by 6mm in a lathe.

These and the modified hubs are available from the likes of rhdjapan or greenline, but look to pay £30+ for effectively some thick washers or £150+ for the steering arms.

Modifed hubs are also available from the above but they are were way over 1K when I looked last.

In terms of geometry the main reason for upgrading rear arms on a 200 is that you get huge negative camber that can not be adjusted out. For the moment I have adjusted the stock adjusters to give me acceptable geometry i.e -1.5t o-2 degrees negative camber all round and 1 degree toe in all round. Its the same setting we used on the 200sx we ran in EDC 08 and results in a stable easy to drive car.

The bushes in the stock arms would ideally be changed but not essential, and there are plenty available.

Once I get some use from mine I will be rebushing it and possibly remaking some front top or bottom arms to give caster adjustment (improved self centering). Again for a begineer I dont see it as neccassary and you could buy Ikea (spelling??) arms.

I would agree with you basic mods list and would suggest oil temp gauge and oil cooler and would suggest the following to make it BDC legal:-

Bonnet Pins

Front and rear Tow hooks

Fire extinguisher (must be fixed with outlet spray in engine bay and driver area, operatable by driver or from outside car.

Pull cords for electrical cut off

I think thats about it.

I am quite happy to help with writing a Sticky on drift preparation for the forum . My car could also be used for pics of the various modifications.

That's very much where I'm coming from - I know both these cars well and for the no hassle factor the Supra is streets ahead IMO. Can you comment on the essential changes that need to be made to a Supra TT for it to drift well - steering rack? (as per Polo's observation on current drift Supras), suspension arms, that kind of thing?

Have you considered a Soarer? Similar to a Supra in terms of strength, but MUCH cheaper. There's even a VVTI manual Soarer on Pistonheads for £4.5k...

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2017891.htm

A V8 would be much cheaper, but I reckon a TT would have alot more scope for future use, due to the tunability of the 1JZ.

There's alot of drift specific parts available for these too, and replacement second hand body panels are cheap.

Forgot about this thread - thanks for the further input David. A Drift prep / how-to sticky would be great - feel free to knock something together based on this thread and whatever else you think and I'll sticky it.

j_jza80 - yeah I thought about the Soarer and that one you've linked looks like a good car for the job but at 4.5k given the mileage and that it needs all the usual mods along with it being a heavier car, I personally would rather stretch a bit further and go with the Supra.

Cheers,

Brian.

Brian, I wouldnt bother with a 2way to start with mate, from experience I personally wouldnt waste my money on a 2way again against the price of a welder, in starting terms.

I run a welder now and its spot on, some people say it'll make the car straighten quicker when coming out of a drift but to be honest I havent noticed anything.

I've had a S14, S13 and a 180sx now and I believe the Supra is still a better car even in its stock form, but I suppose this mainly down to personal tastes, I prefer the larger weight, the Nissan just always felt to small and light.

But to anyone who wants to compete in drifting, forget about the BDC to start with, seriosuly, you will progress a lot further by doing it like I did. Dont even spec a car out, you'll learn so much more. Just get a RWD car, my S14 was totally stock, stock seat, stock seat belt, stock handbrake, stock wheels, stock suspension and I skidded the arse off that car for a whole 12 months before I even touched something purposely built for drifting and it pains me to see people building big spec cars before they have even started, you're just loosing seat time/experience over a money pit build that wont actually make you drift any better.

80% of drifting is the driver, a top driver can drift a shit car, a top driver can drift a high spec car awsomely, but a shit driver cant do much more then what he can in a shit car, stick him in a high spec car and he'll still be shit. Its never about the car, its all about the driver

If you want any input from me Brian, just ask, obviously I have been through this whole route myself, so I can advise on what car to get, what to do to it to start, where to go, everything you'll need to know and then onto competing, but honestly, if you're starting out forget about competing, otherwise you'll be doing everything backwards.

Also, forgot to say, as per the pic, you can see the extended lock over stock lock on my grey Supe.....

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs023.snc4/33519_10150244950205384_640625383_14053453_6176581_n.jpg

I spaced the rack out with 5mm spacers like David did, and I also moved the arm on the hub that your track rod ends joins to back by about 20mm, so we literally just cut 20mm out of it and welded it back together using some metal plate to keep the strength.

A Caterham or Westfield could make a fabulous drift car, but as far as I can see it's at least 75% image and I don't think they would appeal to the sort of young following the drift scene seems to want to attract. I admit bias as I think the whole thing's a total waste of time

A Caterham or Westfield could make a fabulous drift car, but as far as I can see it's at least 75% image and I don't think they would appeal to the sort of young following the drift scene seems to want to attract. I admit bias as I think the whole thing's a total waste of time

Ah Chris, Gav's quote of you he has in his sig makes me laugh everytime I read it lol, what was it ? Something like "I've never understood it, whats the point in nailing a dirty great wing on the rear just to try and break traction" lol.......

Surely you must admire the car control though, it is quite difficult to drive a car sideways at speed and constantly ride that limit between grip and loosing all traction completely and still get the car to go where you want it to ?

Caterhams Im told are harder to drift then your standard car, cant for the foggiest remember why now though lol.

Whilst you're here, do you have a UK downpipe at all ?

I can admire the car control, but I guess a lifetime of trying to make cars grip better would be wasted to now start making things grip less at my old age

I don't have any UK front de cat pipes, sorry, and probably won't make any more unless someone wants to pay a bit over the odds for a one off? Demand all but stopped ages ago.

Lol, I can understand that a lifetime of making cars grip can be hard to throw away yes, old dog and new tricks and all that lol