Nurburgring Trip 2008! 24th-> 29th July

Evening all

I went to the Nurburgring in 2006, organised a trip last year (now with videos!), and was asked to organise one again this year (I might as well - I'm going regardless as it's in my blood now!)

All welcome, new people, people who've been more than me, mates off the forum, whatever - but there will be a limit of what I can organise and to be fair to everyone it will be a first come:first served basis.

To give me an idea of who's in and what number we're looking at....

If you are seriously interested in coming along on a trip - probably 24th->29th July - please post up here saying so and I'll make sure you're kept informed of the arrangements as & when I organise them.

I expect to be making concrete ferry & accommodation bookings at the start of Feb - possibly earlier - which I can arrange but everyone will need to pay for themselves. Please be aware of this before putting your name down.

Limiting numbers - uber long convoys across 300 miles and 4 countries become counter-productive and we'll (I'll!) also struggle to find accomodation for huge numbers of people. ~10 cars and ~15 people is manageable, but I'll stretch myself a bit... much more than that and I might need a lot of persuading as the job becomes much more complicated and I aint getting paid for this! )

I'll update the info I provided last time over the next few days/weeks and post it up here, but expect the 5 night trip to cost in the region of £900~£1800 inclusive of everything bar any pre-trip preparations to your car. The exact amount will depend on: if you're taking a partner/friend, fuel costs (in 7 months time!), MPG, number of laps you do/don't, where we stay, how much you drink, how much touristy stuff you buy.

4 million tonnes of more info can be found on this excellent website.

Stuff you should be aware of before you say "yes please!!":

update:...can now be found below, see post 3. Ta!

That's about it for now - any questions, go for it - otherwise, get your names down!

To avoid any confusion I'll keep the full/latest list of parties here, in this post...

Going on this trip

1. SteveR & [Kate] - Supra

2. jaymdee - Supra

3. [jaymdee's brother] - MR2 Turbo

4. Henk - Supra

5. Bignum (aka Simon) & [Jo] - Supra

6. AndyBandit & suzuki17td (aka James) - Impreza

7. SEVENMAN & [Naomi] - SAAB 9000

8. [Joe] & ['+1'] - Yaris

9. D-Bone (aka Darren) - Supra

Plus, possibly joining us there/along the way:

MrDriver - Supra

B_18-Turbo - Supra

Kim1978 - Supra/S6?

Rolly - Starlet

Luxluc - Supra

Reserves:

in case of someone dropping out...

(PM me and I'll add you to the list)

Things you should think about

First & foremost:

Same as last year: I accept no responsibility for anything or anyone but me, but am happy to act as general trip organiser, informal guide, limited-knowledge-sharer, etc, etc, whatever. If I can help; I will - I'm just not accepting responsibility for anything but me!

If you've not been before

Please read...

this background info and this general guide/info and this advice on the dos and don'ts and this good advice Thank you.

Passports

Please check that your passport (and the passport of anyone who may be travelling with you) won't expire any time close to/during(!) the trip.

95dB Noise limit

There is a noise limit of 95dB which unlike previous years, is apparently going to be STRICTLY enforced from this year (at the barriers and by trackside sound level monitors) after sustained complaints from some locals.

If you want to check how loud you car is, noise level meters can be bought for ~£30 from most electronics shops. Rev your car to 2/3rds of the redline value and get a friend to measure the noise 1 metre from the exhaust, and at a 45 degree angle.

Further info & guidance can be found here.

Modifications

Car & modification safety checks will be carried out this year.

I don't think it's a big worry, and if you read these discussion posts about it (1, 2, 3) it gives a bit more info, but I want people to be fully aware of the score.

Roughly how much does a trip like this cost?

Also: How many souvenirs might I buy?

How much does a lap cost?

How much fuel do you use on a lap?

...and other such questions

Answer: See attached spreadsheet for a reasonable idea. (At the bottom of this post.)

How dangerous is it? What if the worst happens and I crash?

If you treat the 'Ring as a fast road rather than a modern high-spec track with run off areas (you're never more than a few metres from unforgiving barrier), and you don't push your limits, then you shouldn't go far wrong.

However, just in case I feel a sensible insurance policy is to take a credit card with you; as you should already be aware (from the links above) apart from the expense of being dragged off the track, any damage you cause to the track, and closures and/or spillages - has to be paid for - by you. It can quickly add up if you're unlucky (scroll down that page).

Sensible advice: If someone catches up with you; they are quicker than you - even if it is a mini (in fact he's one of the quickest drivers out there) - let them pass, then get on with your lap. If you catch someone up, wait till they spot you and they indicate to pull out of the way, then pass them ON THE LEFT and get on with your lap. The sooner a slower car is out of your way of & passed by a faster car that has caught up with it, the better & safer it is for everyone.

Reminder: When it's open to the public, normal German traffic laws apply and officially the 'Ring is a one-way toll road. Overtaking must be done on the left. Witnessed incidents of dangerous driving will be prosecuted.

In summary; drive safe, don't try to race anyone, and take along a credit card for peace of mind in case you're unlucky.

Insurance

1) Tell your insurance company that you're taking your car abroad, check that they extend your cover to Europe for the duration of the trip and take out additional cover if they don't. (Many policies will include European cover for a limited number of days per year - but it's only 'activated' if you tell them when you're going.)

2) Check you're covered FC for being on the Nurburgring OR accept the risk of damaging your car OR take out additional insurance (£££s).

Medical/Travel insurance

'E111' cards are free and will cover most medial expenses if you're eligible for one (UK citizen) but they don't cover everything, so CHECK the details rather than make any potentially costly assumptions.

They also don't cover loss of passports/money/having to cancel going on the trip due to ill health or any additional medical expenses like being brought back to the UK if you get really ill.... if you're worried about these things, then purchase some travel insurance cover.

Breakdown cover

Direct Line will provide temporary European cover (including repatriation to the UK) - it's too early to check prices at the moment (their system won't quote so far in advance), but - if you book at least 7 days in advance it'll also cover your travel in the UK to & from the port.

Alternatively, last year I suggested that a year's ADAC membership (the European version of the AA) may be useful. HOWEVER this year so far ADAC's stance on recovery from the 'Ring seems to be uncertain. Have a look at the info on the page I've linked to for the latest.

Flag meanings & light signals

- Yellow: Accident, reduce speed considerably, no overtaking.

- Yellow-Red: Oil spill on course, reduce speed considerably, no overtaking.

- Red: Course blocked, stop immediately.

Last year I noticed that there are also a few yellow/red lights dotted around the track, which will flash to indicate the same scenario as the above flags - keep an eye out for these too.

It's useful to stick your hazard warning lights on if you come across any of the above; people behind will see that and understand why you're slowing, plus anyone stood on the track will know you've seen them.

PMRs / Radios / Walkie-Talkies

Essential as far as I'm concerned. If you don't have some, please get some - I bought these for last year's trip for only £35 and they were great.

Apart from allowing us to talk & pass the monotony that is motorway driving across Europe, I can also shout out when we'll be taking exits up ahead so and everyone can shout out if they need fuel or have any technical difficulties and need us all to stop. They're also really handy for organising things whilst at/around the 'Ring (they have a several mile range) - and a lot cheaper than making mobile calls which is the alternative.

Have you got a circuit guide?

Yes, PM me your email address and I'll send you a PDF produced by BMW (who run the 'Ring). It'll give newcomers an insight into just how technical a proper lap is, and give those of us returning for more a few exttra things to take-in or potentially aim for. There is a great sense of achievement just from driving the ideal line at a relatively slow speed.

Can you 'learn' where to go from video games?

Answer: Yes.

Disclaimer: But only to a degree.

Disclaimer #2: and some games are more accurate than others.

XBox/360: Forza Motorsport and Forza Motorsport 2 are fantastic guides. I do not recommend the Project Gotham series as they depict a very 'arcadey' feel to the track and in reality it's a LOT narrower and twistier.

PS2/3: From the little I've seen, the GT series of games are accurate, too.

PC: I think GP Legends is good, but note that some bits of the have changed a lot in 50 years!

In any case, use the games purely to learn if a left or a right comes next and roughly how severe it is - and does it tighten!? Ignore lap times and think more about how many times you crash off track. Don't compare the good lap you fluke and think you'll have the skills/balls/(stupidity!) to match such a time in reality.

When is the track open to the public?

Full list of dates here.

For this trip we will arrive at the 'Ring on the afternoon of the 24th, and depart mid-morning on the 29th...

24th: evening only (17:45 -> 19:30)

25th: afternoon* & evening (14:15 -> 19:30)

26th: all day & evening (08:00 -> 19:30)

27th: all day & evening (08:00 -> 19:30)

28th: evening only* (17:15 -> 19:30) - potential for a spot of sight-seeing in the day

* = Could be manufacturer testing in the morning, with a bit of luck we'll spot something exciting like last year.

more below.....

Approx Nurburgring trip costs v2.xls

...continued from above!

What do I need to take?:

As well as the stuff mentioned above...

Legal stuff:

Whilst driving abroad you must at all times you must be able to prove that you are:

1. licensed to drive the category of vehicle you are in
   
2. either the owner of the vehicle or that you have a owner's permission to drive (i.e. take your V5 - but don't keep it in the car)
   
3. insured
   

You are also legally obliged to have:

1. GB sticker/numberplate
   
2. Headlight deflectors (even in daylight)
   
3. Warning triangle
   
4. Spare light bulbs
   
5. Torch
   
6. First aid kit
   ...though I risked it and didn't have most of that.
   

Other stuff:

• The usual travelling stuff (clothes, passport, Europe-friendly plastic),
  
• at least enough cash* to get you supplies on the way to the 'Ring and to feed you for a night,
  
• a card that will let you withdraw cash in order to pay the B&Bs paid in advance
  
• European maps or preferabaly sat-nav so you know wehere we're going and always have the option to go and explore at any stage (some may consider a sight-seeing route back via Spa, for example?)
  
• Radios (see above)
  
• Ferry booking confirmation
  
• if we're lucky with the weather (no promises!), suncream & a hat/cap - high altitude = easy sunburn

* = There is a cash machine near the 'Ring and a couple more a decent drive away. Plan a day ahead so you don't depend on them to be working.

And if you're still reading after all that!...

You might be willing to sit through these 2 safety videos!

Official video

Northloop's own version (much more interesting, same key info)[ATTACH][ATTACH]78952[/ATTACH][/ATTACH]

Travel Arrangements

Thinking about staying in a hotel the night before the crossing?

Have a look at this post.

Ferry

Route is Dover -> Dunkerque ferry with Norfolk Line.

6am crossing out (UK time), 6pm crossing back (French time)

Dover docks postcode for your sat-nav = CT16 1JA

Map here.

Note: there are roadworks planned for the A20 (the road leading to the docks) - I'm signed up to email updates and will keep everyone posted.

• You must be checked-in 45 minutes prior to departure. Please allow additional time to pass through Customs and Immigration
  
• You will be asked to show a valid passport or valid photographic EU national identity card.
  
• For queries or amendments please call 0870 870 1020 or email [email protected]

Route

The return route we took last year worked well (all boring motorway but it's the destination that's important!) so we'll try that again. There is always the option to vary the route back.

Where are we staying?

The majority of people on the trip are staying here:

....which is here, about a mile from both the track entrance and in the opposite direction, Adenau. Cunningly, it's out of the way of the routes the masses will be taking to the GP circuit for the DTM weekend.

The late-confirming people in the group may also be in the same place - or in similar accommodation nearby - confirmation to follow.

Is the Sierra a cossie Steve ??

Is the Sierra a cossie Steve ??

Pass, it's Si & Jo's brother James' - I've met James but never seen his car - just heard the reputation he got on the midlands gumball last year.

There is a vid of him crashing it (only a bit) at Oulton Park linked on here somewhere!

EDIT - here you go http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?t=133495

James is a top lad

Right, I'm off down the pub!

Is the Sierra a cossie Steve ??

Its a granada cossie motor, with blanket and pipe to go.

If you are seriously interested in coming along on a trip - probably 24th->29th July - please post up here saying so and I'll make sure you're kept informed of the arrangements as & when I organise them.

Isn't that the JAE/TOTB dates matey, that might somewhat limit the amount of interest?

Regards,

Gaz.

Isn't that the JAE/TOTB dates matey, that might somewhat limit the amount of interest?

Is it? That's a shame, at this rate I'll never get to a JAE - I was cut off by floods last year!

Oh well. These look like the best dates and the only ones I know I'll have a chance of making. If I have to choose, I choose 100mph+ fun

Is it? That's a shame, at this rate I'll never get to a JAE - I was cut off by floods last year!

Oh well. These look like the best dates and the only ones I know I'll have a chance of making. If I have to choose, I choose 100mph+ fun

Touche

Touche

I didn't mean anything negative about JAE!! - I am genuinely dissapointed if I've excluded myself form going, but as it's because I'll be blatting about in a car (hopefully a Supra), I'll live - driving is my passion, and the 'Ring is mecca!

I didn't mean anything negative about JAE!! - I am genuinely dissapointed if I've excluded myself form going, but as it's because I'll be blatting about in a car (hopefully a Supra), I'll live - driving is my passion, and the 'Ring is mecca!

I'm with you Steyve (remember that) I love JAE been for last 5 years however if I had to choose its a no brainer for me

Its a granada cossie motor, with blanket and pipe to go.

OMG my old man used to have a Scorpio Cosworth 2.9 with a manual box that moved

Add a blower and that must be nuts

Just read the other thread about noise levels, the boostlogic makes 113db at only 3000rpm so i'd have to stick so many socks up the exhaust i'd have a top speed of 3. Can you try to confirm what the deal is with noise cos there's no way mine will get down to 95.

Just read the other thread about noise levels, the boostlogic makes 113db at only 3000rpm so i'd have to stick so many socks up the exhaust i'd have a top speed of 3. Can you try to confirm what the deal is with noise cos there's no way mine will get down to 95.

http://www.nurburgring.org.uk/noise.html

It's not looking good TBH mate, sounds like they are very serious this year. Are you still interested - could you get a different exhaust stuck on just for this trip?

Bit of discussion here... (you might need to register)

http://forum.ringersforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=40306

... which will no doubt be updated as people head out there between now & July.

Trick, could you get a baffle made like the blitz, its not like its going to restrict you too much miss daisy,

11. Carl_S & Co-driver - Supra

could be interested in this depending on how the rest of the build goes and if i still have the supra then

Bit of a pain about the TOTB dates and this.. I think this trip wins out though.

Bit of a pain about the TOTB dates and this.. I think this trip wins out though.

Good man

One thing I forgot to mention - and this is REALLY important if your car is even remotely modified....

Cars & modification safety checks will be carried out this year

I don't think it's a big worry, and if you read these discussion posts about it (1, 2, 3) it gives a bit more info, but I want people to be fully aware of the score.

I'm going to take my MoT certificates and basically everything I've got come July, just to be sure. Basically you'll need to prove that your car is legal to drive (MoT), any mods are legal (MoT) and preferably, that any mods are ok safety-wise, i.e. you didn't knock them up in your shed after going on a welding course.... i.e. take any paperwork you have detailing any mods you've got.

This is a hastily put together post, and I don't think it's a big deal, just something to be fully aware of.

could be interested in this depending on how the rest of the build goes and if i still have the supra then

You're more than welcome, just be aware that we'll be paying & booking for some stuff in the next 2~4 weeks, so you'll need ot be pretty certain you'll be finished or have a backup plan (or not mind losing deposits). I'll put you down as interested anyway so that I remember ot keep you informed - no firm decision is needed right this minute

JSpec Germany & Carly - I'm hoping you can make it along!

i.e. you didn't knock them up in your shed after going on a welding course....

oh buggeration i was seriously considering this trip but dont know how i go on with my recent brake upgrade, i have worked in engineering all my life, had the machining done at work so hence have no paperwork to back it up i guess you would have to risk it, the drive there would be good anyway even if the Gestapo didn't let you on the track