umm, have turbofit messed up!?

You probably know that when my engine went bang i had it completely re-built by turbofit. well heres something im a bit worried about: (bit of a story first - you dont have to read that if you dont want)

Background:

Back last year i had my double de-cat done by Chris Wilson, who subsequently informed me that my turbos were hybrids. The restrictor ring Chris fitted (1.2 bar apparantly) never worked how i would expect it too, basically, the faster you went the more boost i would get, past 1.2 bar. I wasnt that concerned however at the time because i was told hybrids could hold more boost, 1.4 was the norm. Anyway, earlier this year, i was nailing it on the motorway home from the NW meet and the boost crept up past 1.4 as i was hitting silly speeds, i wasnt paying attention but it must have been 1.5 bar, maybe even 1.6. So as a result of too much air and not enough fuel, i blew a hole in my piston. great.... So being informed that Turbofit were the best in the business, i took my car the 200 odd miles down to their premises to have a rebuild.

At this time i established with a little advise from some friends that in order to make sure nothing like this would happen again; a front mount to get temps down, some 550 injectors to get more fuel in, and an emanage blue to control the fueling, would sort things out. shed loads of money later i had a rebuilt engine with the extra mods. im really happy as it seems turbofit have done an excellent job on my car.

I pick her up... Gregg installs a base map for my 550's on the emanage before i go. im not however allowed to nail the car for 1000 miles in order to bed her in... okay, still all good, after a oil / crank seal thingy broke on the way home mind, im happy. car runs well it seems.

the 1000 miles are up, i wanna see what shes like now so i nail the car a bit, not mapped above 5k rpm so as i expected its very lumpy and struggleing above 5k.

Strange thing is, it seems to be struggleing less and less the more i nail her? Is the ECU learning these new alterations? i dont know, still find it strange.

End of background

So anyway, the car now, after the rebuild, the addition of 550cc injectors, emanage blue (with a base map) and 3 row Front mount, is only boosting to just over 1.0 bar at all speeds.

im thinking this great, turbofit have fixed my car and, as far as i understood, something like the ecu was now stopping my car from over boosting. i thought that maybe because it wasnt mapped i was seeing only this little amount of boost all across the rev range.

Alas, i was informed by Rob Wild (far superior knowledge of engines and engine management than me by far) that regardless of the slight changes, nothing should be stopping my turbos from boostings just as they were........shock horror!

So the question is, whats going on!?! why am i not seeing the high boost levels like before?! it was suggested that TF may have fitted a more suitable restrictor ring to hold the boost back, but they never told me about that or even discussed my exhaust system.

Then it hit me, have for any reason, my hybrid turbos not been put back on when the engine was rebuilt!?! am i now running stock turbos and therefore seeing less boost?! am i just being paranoid, its not like i can call up Gregg now to enquire...

Well, i suppose we shall soon see if my turbos blow up as Hyper is mapping my car to 1.4 bar........

Has the Emanage been mapped yet? If not you should not be pushing the car. Also, It was ran-in on a base map - thats just stupid advice, I can't beleive you were told that (well actually, considering who the garage was I can).

Regarding the turbo's, I suspect you have a restrictor fitted, if they are stock jspecs, without the restrictor they will hit 1.6bar easy. Something is holding back the boost (Could even be due to a poor map)

Has the Emanage been mapped yet? If not you should not be posuhing the car.).

its being mapped now, they started this week. didnt know you couldnt, altough having said that i havent been nailing her at all really due to the fact that i thought i might not be healthy to do so past 5k rpm.

Also, It was ran-in on a base map - thats just stupid advice, I can't beleive you were told that (well actually, considering who the garage was I can).

Yes it was ran in on the base map. but having said that, how else could it be done? to map the car would mean nailing it surely, and you cant nail it until its run in? seems like a bit of a catch 22.

Having said that the emanage didnt have to be installed straight off, could have waited intil the engine was bedded

i would not think it would matter if they were j spec or uk spec turbo,s without boost control they would both overboost, so you probably still have your uk or hybrid turbo,s, as taking some of and refitting another set would outway there worth;)

its being mapped now, they started this week. didnt know you couldnt, altough having said that i havent been nailing her at all really due to the fact that i thought i might not be healthy to do so past 5k rpm.

 

Yes it was ran in on the base map. but having said that, how else could it be done? to map the car would mean nailing it surely, and you cant nail it until its run in? seems like a bit of a catch 22.

 

Having said that the emanage didnt have to be installed straight off, could have waited intil the engine was bedded

It should have been run-in with the 440's installed and the stock ECU (and as much of the rest of it stock, hybrids wouldn't really matter since you were not pusing it). THEN, install the new injectors, ECU and map it right away.

Base maps tend to be set up very safe (rich) so there is a high risk of bore wash driving on one (especially when being run in).

Anyway, you need to get the map checked and at the same time start looking at the boost levels (when mapping you should start and low boost and work up). One quick check worth doing is to open up the exhaust and see if there's a restrictor in there.

i would not think it would matter if they were j spec or uk spec turbo,s without boost control they would both overboost, so you probably still have your uk or hybrid turbo,s, as taking some of and refitting another set would outway there worth;)

UK turbos will not overboost, the stock wastegate can happily keep them to below 0.8 bar. Thats provided the actuators and VSV's are correctly plumbed in of course!

Matt, were your hybrids UK or Jspec?

Matt have you got a AFR, if so what are the readings?

At least then we can determine the engine has been treated ok with the Fuel to Air ratio.

i would not think it would matter if they were j spec or uk spec turbo,s without boost control they would both overboost, so you probably still have your uk or hybrid turbo,s, as taking some of and refitting another set would outway there worth;)

would they have had to take off te turbos to re-build my engine. im worried that upon sticking the turbos back on, they simply didnt put the right ones on.

UK turbos will not overboost, the stock wastegate can happily keep them to below 0.8 bar. Thats provided the actuators and VSV's are correctly plumbed in of course!

 

Matt, were your hybrids UK or Jspec?

thats a question! i dont know, they were on the car when i bought it. CW was the person who spotted the fact they were hybrids, as for jspec or uk, how would you know?

would they have had to take off te turbos to re-build my engine. im worried that upon sticking the turbos back on, they simply didnt put the right ones on.

mmmm i see what you mean, missed that bit, i would check

Matt have you got a AFR, if so what are the readings?

 

At least then we can determine the engine has been treated ok with the Fuel to Air ratio.

no i havent ordered one now though plus an EGT. If i knew of or had an AFR when my engine blew i would have been able to see the AFR was well of and back down. wish i knew that before hand

mmmm i see what you mean, missed that bit, i would check

Ive asked Hyper to check for me if they are hybrids but they keep saying its a big job to check.. i honestly thought i was simple from what ive heard but im no expert.

I would have thought hyper would insist before they map my car 1.4 incase stock turbos are in place and therefore boom!

thats a question! i dont know, they were on the car when i bought it. CW was the person who spotted the fact they were hybrids, as for jspec or uk, how would you know?

I'd say it's highly likely they are jspec turbo's - hybrid or stock (Where did you get the car from?).

That fact is, something is holding the boost back, if they are jspec turbo's, there will be a restriction placed somewhere after the turbo. That applies whether they are hybrids or not. That is of course assuming there are no boost leaks.

Ive asked Hyper to check for me if they are hybrids but they keep saying its a big job to check.. i honestly thought i was simple from what ive heard but im no expert.

You can only check by taking the turbos off and taking some measurements of the compressor and/or exducer. They are correct to say it's a big job.

I'd say it's highly likely they are jspec turbo's (Where did you get the car from?).

 

That fact is, something is holding the boost back, if they are jspec turbo's, there will be a restriction placed somewhere after the turbo. That applies whether they are hybrids or not. That is of course assuming there are no boost leaks.

I purchased it from a dealer near Bolton. ive got the reciepts for the replacement (hybrid) turbos that were fitted, they came from turbo technics and fitted by a garage near bolton too, cant remeber the name though of the top of my head

You can only check by taking the turbos off and taking some measurements of the compressor and/or exducer. They are correct to say it's a big job.

and i thought it was a case of opening and checking for steel blades:d

You can only check by taking the turbos off and taking some measurements of the compressor and/or exducer. They are correct to say it's a big job.

isnt it a case of they either being ceramic exhaust blades or steel blades?

That fact is, something is holding the boost back, if they are jspec turbo's, there will be a restriction placed somewhere after the turbo. That applies whether they are hybrids or not. That is of course assuming there are no boost leaks.

The thing is though, considering no boost leaks, why is it that before i was making more boost than a jet fighter, and now its only 1.0 bar? ummm, i suppose if they were stock jspecs they would boost to 1.2 unless they were fooked?

and i thought it was a case of opening and checking for steel blades:d

Yeah - on the exhaust side gaz - i.e they have to come off anyway

The thing is though, considering no boost leaks, why is it that before i was making more boost than a jet fighter, and now its only 1.0 bar? ummm, i suppose if they were stock jspecs they would boost to 1.2 unless they were fooked?

Probably because it hasn't been mapped. Possibly because they changed the restrictor to keep boost lower, possibly, something else.

One way or another you need to get it mapped and look at the boost issue once you have it running correctly at low boost.

Yeah - on the exhaust side gaz - i.e they have to come off anyway

i am getting there though:d just slowly:(

One way or another you need to get it mapped and look at the boost issue once you have it running correctly at low boost.

whats that going to tell me then? im not quite sure if im with you! lol. what should i be looking for?

Unless the car is mapped for your injector size you must not try for high boost runs. It could cause all sorts of damage (rich and it will bore wash, lean and it could blow like before). You need to get it mapped BEFORE you can start raising boost. Ideally, get it mapped as it is now, then start looking at raising boost - your mapper should be able to assist here.

As mentioned already, the only check I would suggest is to see what (if any) restrictor you have fitted. If there is no restrictor the low boost will be down to:

- bad map (i.e. not generating enough power to boost past 1 bar)

- boost leak

- Incorrectly plumbed boost lines for wastegate control

Unless the car is mapped for your injector size you must not try for high boost runs. It could cause all sorts of damage (rich and it will bore wash, lean and it could blow like before). You need to get it mapped BEFORE you can start raising boost. Ideally, get it mapped as it is now, then start looking at raising boost - your mapper should be able to assist here.

 

As mentioned already, the only check I would suggest is to see what (if any) restrictor you have fitted. If there is no restrictor the low boost will be down to:

- bad map (i.e. not generating enough power to boost past 1 bar)

- boost leak

- Incorrectly plumbed boost lines for wastegate control

Im pretty sure there will be nothing different about the restrictor ring CW fitted last year, a 1.2 bar job. however, this didnt work very well and i was still hitting the silly boost levels like i said in my first post which is why my engine blew.

id put a lot of money on that the CW restictor ring hasnt changed, which means its something else from what you have suggested?

(thanks for the contiuned advice btw homer, much appreciated :wink:)

Im pretty sure there will be nothing different about the restrictor ring CW fitted last year, a 1.2 bar job. however, this didnt work very well and i was still hitting the silly boost levels like i said in my first post which is why my engine blew.

 

id put a lot of money on that the CW restictor ring hasnt changed, which means its something else from what you have suggested?

 

(thanks for the contiuned advice btw homer, much appreciated :wink:)

Check it anyway, it's pointless speculating on further issues without making this step.

Remember the engine has been rebuit since then so it's not going to be compaible.