Wheel spacers - how safe ?

Hi Dudes, I know it is a bit late to ask this question as i have just purchased a 30mm pair of used wheel spacers for the back of my car.

How safe and strong are they ? have any members had any problems, or know of any ? I know the ali spacers will not fail, it is more concern for the fixing bolts, also are the wheel bearings up to the extra stress ? Any info will be appreciated. Herbie.

Usually depends how wide they are. 30mm are kinda in the middle. Wheel bearings tend to go quicker than stock but not by much. Just double check everything before fitting them. Put copper slip between them as I've had loads stick to the hub. All in all as long as they're a good make and not cheap you should be perfectly fine.

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They are one of those items that tend to split people. I have run 20mm ones and had no issues. But wheel bearings as mentioned above can go quicker. Also make sure they are hubcentric as a must!

What type have you bought, bolt on or slip on with longer studs.

Both have their advantages but I would check your wheels have the cuts outs on the mating face if you have bought bolt ons.

I have 50mm each side cos wide archs and never had a problem. As makos says put a good cover of copper slip on the faces and torque the nuts up and fit wheels as normal. I have been running for probably about 4 years and been fine no wheel wobble or wheel bearings.

It's not spacers per se that knacker hub bearings, it's moving the tyre centreline outwards relative to the hub bearing centreline. If you took things to a ludicrous degree and had spacers 2 feet thick the centre of the tyres would be about 20 inches outboard of the bearings, and that puts a huge extra load on them through leverage effects. I hate spacers, wouldn't dream of using them on my own car, but if you must be sure to check the bolts studs and nuts as used are not some junk. That's easier said then done of course.

They MUST be hub centric and a perfect fit inside the wheel counter bore and on the nose of the wheel hub of the car. There are so many cars running spacers because the makers of cheap Asian wheels do generic ones with a dirty big counter bore in the wheel that need spigot rings, and a small range of offsets that may require spacers. A proper wheel has the right counter bore without spigot rings, is forged, and has the right offset without spacers. Meeting all those criteria means either an OE wheel from a similarish model, or a custom wheel, unless you are very lucky.

I am not at all happy about Copperslip grease between the interfaces being a good idea, the spacers are supposed to take all drive and braking torque, not the bolts / studs, via friction clamping. The bolts / studs must be only in tension, not in torsion. reducing the friction coefficient of the hub / spacer / wheel interfaces is negating their ability to transmit these torque changes.

Chris, I generally agree with all that, but it isn't just cheap wheel manufacturers who do it. BBS do it now, my forged BBS RG-R wheels, which are fairly expensive (circa £600 per wheel) require spigot rings. I guess it means they don't have to produce as many sets of wheels as they would otherwise.

I tend to use Image Wheels for people who want a custom wheel. Trouble with most of these wheel people is they have some sort of trouble with their biological clocks. They say a month lead time, but really mean 6 months

I have milled out wheel centres to a perfect size and shrunk in alloy rings, Loctited in place, that's a much better way than the pitiful spigot rings wheel makers seem to supply.

 

I have milled out wheel centres to a perfect size and shrunk in alloy rings, Loctited in place, that's a much better way than the pitiful spigot rings wheel makers seem to supply.

Might have a word with you soon about doing that with mine

As usual good info Chris, many thanks, i was aware of the copper grease issue, many motorists have an honest but wrong belief about where and how to use it, the threads yes, but all other mating surfaces should be clean dry and gripping, including the small taper on the studs or bolts which mate up with the countersunk bit on the wheel, you explained it really well.

I will also check the hub centric when i have fitted the spacers. Herbie.

I am not at all happy about Copperslip grease between the interfaces being a good idea, the spacers are supposed to take all drive and braking torque, not the bolts / studs, via friction clamping. The bolts / studs must be only in tension, not in torsion. reducing the friction coefficient of the hub / spacer / wheel interfaces is negating their ability to transmit these torque changes.

This, this and thrice this.

Where this idea about putting copper grease on wheel mating faces came from, God only knows.

I made my own spigot rings which were a perfect fit in the wheel and a press fit onto the hub, never had any problems in many years

of use on the road and track days, boring out the wheels seems overkill to me.

An interesting watch.

I am running 25mm hub centric spacers on my car over 4 years now...no problems to date! Just be sure to clean both contact surfaces of all small surface rust for a super smooth contact.

Oh and I hammer on my car most of the time it's driven..lol

Very interesting link Black Widow, looks like the performance advantages are minimal and the wheel bearings will wear marginally more. I am putting 30mm spacers on the rear only, i would not consider them on the front with the much more geometric complications and negatives. Herbie.

Good info, What's the best spacers to use with the stock 17" uk wheel? And what (mm) is a flush finish with the arches without rubbing? Cheers

You won't need to use a spacer with the stock wheel (unless its for aesthetics) as it would be exactly the way Toyota intended without them

What effects should be expected from widening the track width on an existing

vehicle, say by adding wider wheels with more offset? What changes to wheel

alignment and other chassis settings are called for?

The effects will vary quite a bit from one vehicle to another. In many cases

the biggest factors will be fender clearance and changes in compliance

effects.

In many cases a big change in wheel width or offset will be accompanied by

changes to ride height. Sometimes these are to increase ground clearance.

Sometimes they are to lower the car for competition or just for appearance.

Sometimes they are simply necessary to get the wheels and tyres on the

vehicle. Often, an increase in track is accompanied by other changes in

settings, but the changes are not directly caused or necessitated by the wheel

and tyre change; rather, both they and the wheel and tyre change are related

to a change in what the vehicle is to be used for.

If the objective is merely to get the look of the big wheels and still have

adequate street operation, and we are up-sizing all four by the same amount,

and if fender clearance is not an issue, most settings do not need to be

changed.

If the vehicle has independent suspension with rubber bushings, we may see

increased compliance toe-out in braking. This will show up as directional

instability when braking hard. If this is encountered, it may be necessary to

reduce bushing compliance, or maybe add toe-in to crutch the problem.

When we move the wheel planes outboard, there are effects on steering

geometry. These generally cannot easily be adjusted out or compensated for,

but it’s useful to know about them.

The front-view steering offset increases. This increases caster jacking and

SAI jacking. Caster jacking rolls the car to the left when the wheels steer

to the right and vice versa. It de-wedges the car: adds load to the inside

front and outside rear tyres while reducing load on the other two. SAI

jacking creates an induced gravitational self-centering force in the steering.

Increasing the front-view steering offset also increases feedback through the

steering from one-wheel bumps and brake pulsation.

Things get more complex when we add more wheel offset and tyre size at just

one end of the car. Most often, we see this at the rear on rear-wheel-drive

cars. Typically, there is more room to

increase track and tyre size at the rear, partly because the rear wheels don’t

have to steer and partly because manufacturers generally leave room for tyre

chains at the rear. Also, cars often look good with larger tyres at the rear.

If we stay with similar design and construction for the front and rear tyres,

but make the rears bigger, as a rule that will add understeer. To counter

this, we may want to add rear roll resistance and/or some negative camber in

front. Alternatively, we may want to just deflate the rear tyres a bit. This

will amount to throwing away lateral grip to balance the car, but within

limits it will improve longitudinal grip at the rear. It will also make the

car throttle steer more controllably, as rear breakaway will generally be

gentler with lower tyre pressures.

What if we have a beam (live) axle at the rear and we increase just the rear track,

not the tyre size, and we don’t change anything else? The car will roll the

same amount. The rear suspension will have the same angular roll resistance.

However, there will be less rear load transfer, since we are reacting the same

moment over a wider base. This should increase understeer. If we have

limited slip diff, the understeer-inducing effect from that will be increased

a bit.

Now suppose we have the same situation, and independent front suspension, and

we increase the front track too, also without changing anything else? We have

already discussed the effects on steering geometry. Front wheel rate in roll

will not change a great deal, but with the increased track, front angular roll

stiffness will increase. Therefore, there should be less roll. The effect on

understeer gradient is harder to predict. In most cases, understeer will be

somewhat reduced.

Hi Chris, Quite complicated, but very good info, i could follow it as i have been researching the suspension geometry this week, i would guess most members, me included where looking for aesthetics, the net result for me is rear wheels only 30mm, checked for condition of the wheel bolts / studs and hub-centricity, i have knocked up a simple stand with a pointer to position on the edge of the rear brake drum and then rotate the hub. I am not sure if the tyres will foul the top of the wheel arch? it looks like it will be very close? May be because there is only my weight in the car 90% of the time, then it may be ok? Herbie.

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I'd be more worried about the rear discs and pads than spacers....

Hi Chris, Why would you be more concerned about the discs and pads ? I refurbished the calipers, new pistons, rubbers etc, and had the front discs spot faced,last year, the brakes are really good. Herbie.

The pads are far removed from making full contact with the discs, looks like corrosion on the discs from the photos..

What effects should be expected....

Every time I open the lid on my tool box I hope, pray even, to see a little version of you smiling up at me.

yup hubcentric are the ones to go..spot on

I've ran wheel spaces and wide arch kits for years, never had any issues with wheel bearings or anything. Always used quality hubcentric spacers and extended ARP studs rather than the bolt on type spacers.

Good info, What's the best spacers to use with the stock 17" uk wheel? And what (mm) is a flush finish with the arches without rubbing? Cheers

I run 25mm front and rear and it's spot on.