The Islamist attack in Paris 13-11-15

Agreed Cered unfortunately.

 

It's a war that cannot and will not be won. The West can't give up but you can't help thinking we need a rethink.

 

Would be interested to know how many men who've watched their families burn as a result of off target air strikes have been tempted by Daesh.

There's half of their propaganda "The US and British armies have come to your country to bomb and kill us!" Fortunately the majority of people see through this and support the true freedom fights and not Daesh.

Suppose the minority who do join ISIS are a bit like the people over here who think all Muslims (Or non-white people of Indian, Pakistani, Afghan, Turkish etc descent) are all terrorists who are trying to burn their poppies and turn their Asdas into mosques. Except instead of sharing Britain First posts or attending English Defence league marches their Middle Eastern counterparts can join Daesh and do what they want to spread terror and their twisted version of Islam. I feel so bad for the Iraq, Syrian, Afghan people etc because all they want to do is carry on with their lives and have no part in Western power playing or religious warfare.

Russia are now (at this moment) striking Raqqa.

Their turn on the punchbag...

There's half of their propaganda "The US and British armies have come to your country to bomb and kill us!" Fortunately the majority of people see through this and support the true freedom fights and not Daesh.

 

Suppose the minority who do join ISIS are a bit like the people over here who think all Muslims (Or non-white people of Indian, Pakistani, Afghan, Turkish etc descent) are all terrorists who are trying to burn their poppies and turn their Asdas into mosques. Except instead of sharing Britain First posts or attending English Defence league marches their Middle Eastern counterparts can join Daesh and do what they want to spread terror and their twisted version of Islam. I feel so bad for the Iraq, Syrian, Afghan people etc because all they want to do is carry on with their lives and have no part in Western power playing or religious warfare.

Totally agree.

I'm sure the only solution is a military one but bombing the area off the map might not be what's needed.

 

It's a war that cannot and will not be won. The West can't give up but you can't help thinking we need a rethink.

 

I disagree, imo we have already won long term. Western culture and society are the aspiration of the emerging nations, and media (Films, TV, Music, News etc) and the Internet will keep it that way.

Yes, in the short term, Isis can commit horrific acts, but long term it is they who cannot hope to compete.

The notion of religious rule has no future, and the wholesale abandonment of religion in the West is the evidence of this.

I see your points, but the problem is that if the relentless bombing campaigns & civilian casualties carry on (as well as the numerous back handed power plays) all that will happen is another group will take their place. I know they're infinitely more savage than AQ but it keeps repeating in a cycle.

There we go.

US supplied TOW firing at US supplied Humvee.

I think quote a lot of TOW were acquired by Isis when they overran the Iraqis.

But the Russians must face this every day, as the vast majority of the equipment out there was surplus USSR stuff that was sold off cheap after the collapse.

Even WW2 Nazi weapons have been found in the caches, STG.44, MG42 and Lugers from what I gather. No doubt aquired by the US and Soviets at the WW2 and supplied clandestinely during the many proxy conflicts of the cold war.

They've been openly supplied very recently by the US & Saudis, those are later models which have been ripping the Syrian regime T72s to pieces. All mostly very shiny new equipment.

There we go.

 

US supplied TOW firing at US supplied Humvee.

 

US supplied to who?

Could be stolen, supplied by another country as the US are not the only ones with that equipment.

And the US don't produce that equipment either.

Civilian companies do

So far: US, Saudi Arabia, Qatar & China.

US ones have had their serial numbers removed allegedly.

Could be stolen etc but 500 American made ones suddenly turned up in October from Saudi Arabia.

Allegedly.

Saudi Arabia openly support ISIS and fund them under the table. They buy surplus equipment, clear evidence and pass to ISIS.

Al I misread your post. Supplied to the rebels generally. With Saudi allegedly supplying both in one form or another.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/syria-rebels-and-tow-missiles-2015-10?r=US&IR=T

Could well be one of these supplied by Saudi.

US supplied to who?

 

Could be stolen, supplied by another country as the US are not the only ones with that equipment.

 

And the US don't produce that equipment either.

 

Civilian companies do

I usually like reading these threads especially your responses as you have a bit more intimate knowledge than the average civilian in matters concerning the middle east, do to your experience in the region. But these last two pages are a farce due to some opinions by a few users. Some people just don't get it. The real enemy is illiteracy and the control of knowledge in those regions. War is not something the US/UK or any westernized country invented in the last 20-30 yrs. Terrorism isn't new either. And its idiotic to think if we just leave them to be and turn a blind eye everything would be peachy over there. For every action there is a reaction. Some good and some bad. Of course "ALL" countries/governments have things them deem national interest/priorities and I'm not going to sit here and act like I know the details of everything leadership knows to be able to make an accurate assessment on whats right or wrong. That doesn't mean we shouldn't question decisions made by our leaders but we should also make sure the questions we ask questions that are intelligent and make sure we are protecting our loved ones and countries first. Constructive Opinions are also welcomed as well as that is one of the greatest freedoms you have as a Westerner.

Al Massey hopefully one day we could meet and have a good discussion on topics such as this over a beer.

Saudi Arabia openly support ISIS and fund them under the table. They buy surplus equipment, clear evidence and pass to ISIS.

i've heard this too - who supplies the Saudis with the weapons? how come no one is sanctioning the Saudis for funding and promoting terrorism?

similarly - why the special consideration regarding the Kuwaitis?

And the US don't produce that equipment either.

 

Civilian companies do

indeed, private companies with commercial interests.....

It's gone to the point now where's always going to be terrorism, particular when world powers play chess or experiment with other countries. The US and Russia made a right mess of the middle East. Iirc Iraq and Afghanistan in the 60s/70s was a very modern, cultured and "westernised" place. I actually think my grandfather took a holiday to Afghanistan at some point during that time.

 

We killed off Al Qaeda, Taliban and now working on Daesh... Who's going to be the next terrorist group?

I'm in Afghanistan as we speak and trust me, we have not killed off the Taliban.

As for weapons, many of them are Russian as back in the day when Russia invaded afghan they just upped and left leaving all their gear behind.

I see your points, but the problem is that if the relentless bombing campaigns & civilian casualties carry on (as well as the numerous back handed power plays) all that will happen is another group will take their place. I know they're infinitely more savage than AQ but it keeps repeating in a cycle.

Sorry to be a cynic - war is a profitable business, the names of the group / targets change but essentially its the same formula:

• indirectly they are funded by us (or our allies)
  
• we prop them up over the years to maybe do our dirty work
  
• and then it goes out of control as essentially we are funding psychos
  
• we then mobilise billions of dollars on military action, funding military programs, more weapons, etc to bring back to a manageable level
  
• until it is propped up again under another guise.
  
• the cycle continues
  

You can insert any name into the above formula, gaddafi, saddam, Assad, usama or even the new nut jobs - Isis/ Daesh, whatever.......

Never do we actually want to solve the problem as that would break the cycle and hence the business model.

This time round - special recognition to Merkel for having the best of intentions however not thinking her Refugee policy through and opening the floodgates to god knows how many hundreds / thousands of sleepers now in Europe.

Europe inc UK already is a paradise for all sorts of nutters - Abu-Hamza being one of many many examples. we give them a safe haven to preach their hatred and run their recruitment campaign and then cry wolf when it bites us in the backside - Look at the French terrorist - the authorities were aware of them and did bugger all / homegrown

how stupid can one be?

Look at this article as a contributing factor - we allow societies to be broken up / segregated communities

another community with loads of issues - breeding radicalism and extremism on both sides

how do these nutters contribute to european societies? they must be on the dole? indirectly we are funding them

some people call this tolerance - I call it stupidity.

i've heard this too - who supplies the Saudis with the weapons? how come no one is sanctioning the Saudis for funding and promoting terrorism?

 

similarly - why the special consideration regarding the Kuwaitis?

 

 

 

indeed, private companies with commercial interests.....

They're American made, as the saying goes - you do the math.

I asked earlier on for concrete proof just waiting on a reply from someone.

Sorry to be a cynic - war is a profitable business, the names of the group / targets change but essentially its the same formula:

 

• indirectly they are funded by us (or our allies)
  
• we prop them up over the years to maybe do our dirty work
  
• and then it goes out of control as essentially we are funding psychos
  
• we then mobilise billions of dollars on military action, funding military programs, more weapons, etc to bring back to a manageable level
  
• until it is propped up again under another guise.
  
• the cycle continues
  

 

 

You can insert any name into the above formula, gaddafi, saddam, Assad, usama or even the new nut jobs - Isis/ Daesh, whatever.......

 

Never do we actually want to solve the problem as that would break the cycle and hence the business model.

 

This time round - special recognition to Merkel for having the best of intentions however not thinking her Refugee policy through and opening the floodgates to god knows how many hundreds / thousands of sleepers now in Europe.

 

Europe inc UK already is a paradise for all sorts of nutters - Abu-Hamza being one of many many examples. we give them a safe haven to preach their hatred and run their recruitment campaign and then cry wolf when it bites us in the backside - Look at the French terrorist - the authorities were aware of them and did bugger all / homegrown

 

how stupid can one be?

 

Look at this article as a contributing factor - we allow societies to be broken up / segregated communities

 

some people call this tolerance - I call it stupidity.

Oh I completely agree.

The problem for me (aside from the monumental levels of backdoor corruption) is that the civilians caught up end up that distraught that often their remaining aim in life is revenge ie joining a cult like isis, but the again we're back to that cycle.

Found this a minute ago;

Germany Netherlands cancelled :

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/nov/17/germany-holland-friendly-suspicious-suitcase

Bomb has been found near the stadium disguised as an Ambulance. Police have a man at gunpoint.

Bomb has been found near the stadium disguised as an Ambulance. Police have a man at gunpoint.

we need Jack Bauer.....

What is this world coming to?

What is this world coming too?

It's end apparently..!!

Oh and it's "to" not "too", that means as well, in addition etc.

You can depend on the forum to maintain grammer standards while the world around us self destructs