joke Windows 7 Phones V The World.

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This has all the best but slightly irrelevant yet informative bits from Scott's new Samsung Galaxy S2 review.

All the usual suspects are contained herein; Edinv8, Scott, Thorin, Kaiser Soze, Caseys, Anne Widdecombe and even uncle Bill himself.

It's quite good so I decided to run with it.

Warning: May contain nuts.

Enjoy.

Honestly you guys like these?? I think hardware on this is very good but what about battery life? Duel cores suck at battery life n the worst bit of all on this phone is the android OS (it is the old win mobile with a bit more apps + multitouch). Been seeing then for almost 10 years on various mobile platforms - grids of icons + a taskbar to kill the various unnecessary tasks + file explorer! When will these OS go from data/file level + app centric level to information/intelligence level with out app boundaries. This is the new paradigm for the current and next generation. Apple got a head start but WP7 will let you all realise and achieve this level.

You really are blinded by Bill arent you? How is it the old Win Mob with apps? I can tell you now I havent seen a windows phone doing what my SGS is right now!

It can't be anything to do with that though bud. As I said, the market is the same.. the apps are the same. The Sensation and the Galaxy SII are running the same version of Android. It's like 2 different spec PCs running Windows 7, the software for them both is exactly the same as the operating system is the same.

 

There can be no difference in developing apps and commercial things for the phones. The difference lies in creating hacks, roots and cracks for either phone as there will be slight driver differences. That's not what you're on about though

that was my take on it as well but then I'm not developing apps.

Edin, see if your narrow vision allows this article to be read in full.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/apr/18/smartphone-market-android-win-nokia-rim-lose

Of course, the billions of users worldwide are all wrong. Microsoft is right and the windows phones are clearly the greatest. Go Microsoft!!

Windows Phone 7 is shocking, bug ridden, and crippled beyond belief for a current "smart" phone. There are some nice touches and things to like about it, but it's too little too late. The upcoming "Mango" update needs to bring a lot to the table or sales will only drop further.

Apple, Android, Blackberry, even MeeGo (from what little I've seen) all seem streets ahead at the moment. Hell even the new Symbian ("Anna") Nokia's coming out are looking preferable to Win Phone 7 right now.

What you want is an iPhone.

*runs and hides*

What you want is an iPhone.

 

*runs and hides*

I do think that all these advancements in all the phones is quite astounding, and for the foreseeable future I will continue with the iPhone, but what really, really annoys me, is the standard of the phone operator's signal. I'm on Vodafone in Eastbourne, and it really is terrible - to the point that I have to carry a spare Samsung D900, which is on a PAYG with O2, to make calls and take SMS, as none of the services for smart phones are any good around here.

What I'd like to see is far better coverage for all smart phones, so I can enjoy all the features of the phone, rather than the pathetic, 'oh, no signal again'!

Glad you're happy with your phone though.

1) Ok if you say X company sold 500 phones, company Y sold 400 phones, company Z sold 100 phones and conclude that either X or Y should be the best phones with BEST OSes as most of the people are buying them, then I dont have a case.

2) Or if you say X company has 300,000 apps, Y company has 200,000 apps and company Z has 23,000 apps. So X n Y are great platforms then also I dont have a case

3) Or if you say X n Y has 100 features but Z only has 80 features, I still dont have a case.

4) Carriers/Manufatures invested heavily in android way before WP7 hit the market. All the WP7 devices run on almost 2 year old hardware. And carriers are not liking the idea of updates to the phone OS on a regular basis. Will take some more time for all of these to gel together. There is a reason why MS tapped on Nokia for hardware.

5) Or if you hate MS or cannot look past that name then you can easily discredit their mobile offering.

6) I have been developing enterprise level apps for mobile/resource constrained devices from 6-7 years. I know what software is used in most of the barcode scanners with touch screens in various warehouses or retail outlets. I know what phones police use with their stylus for recording incidents on the spot n get a printout for giving a fine/penalty. I also know what software is used in most of the double din units in cars with satellite navigation.

7) Did you see any WP7 phones on display in the shops? Most of the retailers are not even displaying them in the stores. Even if you ask a salesperson for a WP7 phone they either understand Windows Mobile phone (which they have none) and will take you to an Android phone or suggest getting an iPhone. May be just for fun you should try asking them for a WP7 phone in a retail outlet and see. I know the experience as I when looking for one. There wont be smoke without a fire ....

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2386647,00.asp

http://www.wpcentral.com/bad-wp7-sales-experience-express-your-concern

Some of you say I support WP7 because I am an MS fanboi but I can assure you I am absolutely objective in this case.

My only problem with iOS/Android/ Symbian/WinMob/ Meego/WebOs is the lack of coverage for the day to day usage scenarios built into the phone. All of them built their OSes features targeting an ecosystem with apps + services but missed on the big thing of usage scenarios. All these apps are their own process islands n they run intheir own island with resources tied to them. They dont have the knowledge of other apps, neither they can communicate with other apps, none of these OSes can provide an integrated experience by removing the app boundaries. The first OS to take this paradigm is WP7 and if you follows Apple's WWDC last month you would know they are moving in this direction too.

Tell me which OS does the following scenario to the best?

Say you are in the canaries for a holiday, in Tenerife. You went to one corner of the island to do some shopping and you have to catch a BA flight in some time. The BA app on your phone sends you a notification that the checkin is open and you can checkin though that app and get a boarding pass (this is the same as any other BA app on any other platform at the moment). The best bit comes after this. The BA app also knows the duration of your flight so puts a calendar appointment/task for this time with the place where it begins in your default/outlook calendar. Now the phone understands your calendars and appointments and also understands the location where that appointment is. As it also knows your current location along with current traffic in the area around you, it send you a notification when is the earlier you should leave that shopping centre (considering the current traffic) to be in time to return your hire car at the airport and boarding the flight in time and also shows you a navigation/Bing map with the current traffic info from your location to the airport. All of this is done with one usage scenarios with you not jumping between apps and feeding in data into these individual apps.

I can tell you there are hundreds of these usage scenarios which WP7 does best. Same is the case with communication with a contact. You guys might have used KiK messenger app on iOS or Android. The best bit about this app on these platforms is that it integrates all your messaging applications. But you have to launch and login in this app to use that integrated experience along with the other person (who should be running the same app). But WP7 does this out of the box dont need to log into any app. Same is the case with photos. It has an integrated experience with Skydrive, Facebook, Flickr, Photobucket etc etc.

It’s all about control. In a traditional, app-centric system the application has complete control and the user must go through it in order to get at any piece of information. In a hub-centric system, the information is in control and apps (or even small pieces of apps) are summoned at will to do things with, for, or related to, that information.

http://www.kotancode.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Windows-Phone-7-Series-People-hub-300x190.jpgWP7 People Hub

 

Let’s take an example. Let’s say I want to e-mail someone a photo, and this person is only in one of my social network applications. In an app-centric system you’d probably reach for your e-mail client first. But, on the iPhone, you can’t actually start in your mail app to send attachments. I know, seems odd. So, you go to the photosapp, which lets you e-mail the photo. But, the contact list is only the list of contacts that are on your phone’s internal contact list. It doesn’t look up people in facebook or LinkedIn or MyAwesomeSocial or anywhere else. What if I want to tweet the photo after I e-mail it? On an app-centric platform, I have to back all the way out of the photo app, go into the Twitter app, and then pick the photo from the “new tweet” menu. If I want to then share the photo on facebook, what do I have to do? Escape all the way to the home screen again, and then open up the Facebook app, then push a few buttons and the worst part of this, is that I have to re-find the item that I was originally hoping to share on Facebook.

http://www.kotancode.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/wp7-game-hub-300x139.jpgWP7 Game Hub

 

Now let’s look at how this might work in a hub-centric system. You go into the photos hub and then you find the photo you want. Without ever leaving the context of this photo, the system knows which applications are able to add extension capabilities to that photo. This means that from this photo, you can send it to someone via e-mail, you can share it on Facebook, you can share it on Twitter, you can (and yes, this is real, I’ve seen this in screenshots) automatically treat the photo with the word “FAIL” and submit it to the FAIL blog. And because contacts are also a hub, contacts can be injected into the list by other applications that know of additional sources of people. This means that from the photos hub, I can e-mail the photo to someone whose e-mail address came from Facebook or LinkedIn or the corporate directory or wherever.

http://www.kotancode.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/wp7-pictures-hub.jpgWP7 Pictures Hub

 

Think about it this way: What you use your smart phone for, the things that you deal with on a daily basis, is data. Information. The applications are merely there to provide just enough chrome and ceremony to allow you to manipulate and store that information in a way that is hopefully pleasant and meaningful. Given this statement of roles and responsibilities, I personally feel that the hub-centric approach to smart phone UX is absolutely, hands-down more productive than the app-centric UX.

In addition to all of the built-in hubs that come with WP7, developers can even create their own. This enables application-sharing scenarios across multiple vendors and enterprises. Developers for a single enterprise can also build an entire hub around the business of that enterprise – aggregating data and information and statistics and wrapping all that information with functionality that applies to the information, only loosely identifiable as “apps”.

I rest my case here

I rest my case here

It still sucks, and I'll still wait to see if Mango is a huge improvement.

I hope it is.

Some of you say I support WP7 because I am an MS fanboi but I can assure you I am absolutely objective in this case.

good one!

Considering Microsoft's enormous market share, if their WP7 phones were any good, they'd be flying off the shelves, but they aren't. The simple reason, is that they are obviously awful.

Possibly.

All I take from that is that you agree the phone is pretty crap with a few nice touches.

Shipping numbers vs sales numbers don't lie. You can say that M$ made xxx phones but they only sold 50% of them. That shows that they are unpopular. They are unpopular because they are rubbish compared to other phones on the market. As said, some things that they do are nice and the people who rely on those "some things" are the people who will be buying them. Most people just want an all round phone with plenty of flexibility, upgradeability and customiseability.

I have always gone with what I think is the best phone on the market. I tend to read reviews and other peoples experiences to give me an idea, but I take most of them with a pinch of salt and like to make my own mind up. The Windows phones are rubbish IMO, the Iphone is great if you're an apple fan... not so much if you know how a phone should operate (Android users) and the android is the leader of the pack at the moment.

How long have M$ been around? They can flood the phone market anytime they choose. If they brought out a phone that was decent there would be no supply and demand issues, they have no constraints over manufacturing times or logistics. If their product was good, it would sell and M$ would have the resources to make sure it was available. Fact is, it isn't very good. Stores realise this, customers realise this and the dwindling supply figures from M$ show that they are recognising this.

Pull your head out of your rear bud. Oh, IE8 sucks too.

It still sucks, and I'll still wait to see if Mango is a huge improvement.

 

I hope it is.

Release mango beta 2 yesterday for developers. I have it on my phone. It is what they should have released in the first place.

When my favourite beverage turns to espresso,

I didn't actually realise there was any other drink? bar water. And whiskey.

I rest my case here

As one of my friends would say - "I rest on your face"

Android & iOS are going to win out, Nokia are a dead duck, WP7 is going to be as successful as the Zune. Don't get me wrong, there may be nice things to it, but they're far too late to the game.

I didn't actually realise there was any other drink? bar water. And whiskey.

 

 

 

As one of my friends would say - "I rest on your face"

 

Android & iOS are going to win out, Nokia are a dead duck, WP7 is going to be as successful as the Zune. Don't get me wrong, there may be nice things to it, but they're far too late to the game.

Don't forget Symbian, they are still a major player. And what is this Zune thing you mention?

Oh, IE8 sucks too.

Get with the times granddad, it's all about IE10 now!... Which also sucks.

Actually I don't know as I haven't tried it out yet

Get with the times granddad, it's all about IE10 now!... Which also sucks.

 

 

 

Actually I don't know as I haven't tried it out yet

Oops, typo, I meant IE9. IE8 is what I had to revert back to after installing the god awful browser that is IE9.

As one of my friends would say - "I rest on your face"

 

Android & iOS are going to win out, Nokia are a dead duck, WP7 is going to be as successful as the Zune. Don't get me wrong, there may be nice things to it, but they're far too late to the game.

I never said WP7 will overtake either iOS or Android but it will not be insignificant player either. For that matter, WP7 sold more phone than Android did in the same period also has more apps than Android had during the same period. It all depends on developers, carriers, manufacturers, retailers and finally the buyers/enterprise adaptation.

For that matter, WP7 sold more phone than Android did in the same period also has more apps than Android had during the same period. It all depends on developers, carriers, manufacturers, retailers and finally the buyers/enterprise adaptation.

I kinda find that hard to believe, for nothing else but the fact there are so many different models of Android phones out there, and relatively few WP7 right now. It may indeed be true though. Link to the source?

Don't forget Symbian, they are still a major player. And what is this Zune thing you mention?

Not kidding ... Try Zune you will never go back to iTunes. Coz I have tried both and I know. Anyway you dont have to use Zune for music, there are others like spotify you can use that have a subscription model.

I never said WP7 will overtake either iOS or Android but it will not be insignificant player either. For that matter, WP7 sold more phone than Android did in the same period also has more apps than Android had during the same period. It all depends on developers, carriers, manufacturers, retailers and finally the buyers/enterprise adaptation.

When was this?? Sounds like you're clutching at interweb straws.

Or are you meaning in your household?

Not kidding ... Try Zune you will never go back to iTunes. Coz I have tried both and I know. Anyway you dont have to use Zune for music, there are others like spotify you can use that have a subscription model.

I can't stand iTunes. Why would I want something similar with a different name?

Drag and drop works just fine for me

I kinda find that hard to believe, for nothing else but the fact there are so many different models of Android phones out there, and relatively few WP7 right now. It may indeed be true though. Link to the source?

Also WP7 is not released in all the countries as it doesnot have support for all those languages (next mango release have the support for these languages). Also some of those countries dont have Xbox Live/ Zune services which the phone needs out of the box.

Also WP7 is not released in all the countries as it doesnot have support for all those languages (next mango release have the support for these languages). Also some of those countries dont have Xbox Live/ Zune services which the phone needs out of the box.

Would you rather retract your previous statement?

Contrary to popular belief, hitting 88mph, even while backpeddling, doesn't send you back in time.

Pick any country of your choosing where IOS, Android and WP7 is available, does it come out on top anywhere?

Would you rather retract your previous statement?

 

Contrary to popular belief, hitting 88mph, even while backpeddling, doesn't send you back in time.

 

 

Pick any country of your choosing where IOS, Android and WP7 is available, does it come out on top anywhere?

Sorry we both are not on the same page. I am talking about the initial sales during the first 6-7 months after the release of the respective OSes.

... makes some good points about the WP7 ecosystem and the troubles Microsoft has faced in dragging their Windows Mobile platform into the modern age. The sales figures aren’t that impressive when you compare them to iOS and Android, heck they’re not even that impressive compared to single handsets on either platform. Still this ignores the fact that WP7 is still a nascent platform and it will be a while before it reaches the maturity level that everyone’s expecting of it. If we’re fair and compare the initial WP7 sales to the initial release of Android you’ll actually find them quite comparable with the G1 selling some 600,000handsets in the first couple months and WP7 cracking 1.5 million in its first 6 weeks. It took quite a while for Android and even the iPhone to hit the fever pitch that they have today so the current market share of WP7 devices shouldn’t really come as a surprise.

Sorry we both are not on the same page. I am talking about the initial sales during the first 6-7 months after the release of the respective OSes.

Is that a fair comparison? I paid £150, I think + £40 per month for my G1 and it was the only device on the market other than the original iPhone (same price) for about 6-12 months, from memory. WP7 was released across 4 or 5 handsets into a well developed market with a far lower premium.

The fact is Scott M is completely right: WP7 is floundering, flailing and will drown. It's fighting too many battles on too many fronts - it's battling a lack of software, a poor market image, mediocre hardware and their everlasting standards compliance aversion. The fact is Microsoft WP7 is the worst of the three, but that's not its biggest problem, the MS brand is toxic, not to consumers who're basically positive to indifferent, but to developers who don't trust them and have no faith in them to make headway, so won't invest their time creating software. I know I wont.

Is that a fair comparison? I paid £150, I think + £40 per month for my G1 and it was the only device on the market other than the original iPhone (same price) for about 6-12 months, from memory. WP7 was released across 4 or 5 handsets into a well developed market with a far lower premium.

 

The fact is Scott M is completely right: WP7 is floundering, flailing and will drown. It's fighting too many battles on too many fronts - it's battling a lack of software, a poor market image, mediocre hardware and their everlasting standards compliance aversion. The fact is Microsoft WP7 is the worst of the three, but that's not its biggest problem, the MS brand is toxic, not to consumers who're basically positive to indifferent, but to developers who don't trust them and have no faith in them to make headway, so won't invest their time creating software. I know I wont.

Just to add to that, the brand power of M$ is infinitely greater than any Android manufacturer when it first came out. The lemming consumer would always choose a brand they know over a brand they don't, regardless of how good the product is. It's only after word spread and people started taking notice that the Android phones took off.

2010 Q4

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b5/Smartphone_share_current.png/240px-Smartphone_share_current.png

And I very much doubt there has been any change other than better for Android, and worse for Windows Mobile.