Religion...

Do you know what I like most about my religious beliefs? It is the fact that they are mine and give me comfort. I dont try to force them onto anyone or try to explain why everyone else is wrong and must be a moron for not believing. I dont try to justify them with facts, fiction or theories. I dont need to because I dont give a flying feck if anyone else believes in what I believe in or not.

 

My beliefs work for me...thats all that matters.

Were you born with your beliefs?

I dont see any harm in discussing... Its a way to learn about other peoples views and beliefs... Aslong as it dosent get violent

Were you born with your beliefs?

 

I dont see any harm in discussing... Its a way to learn about other peoples views and beliefs... Aslong as it dosent get violent

I dont think anyone can be born with a belief can they? I agree there is no harm in discussing them but what is the point? Those who believe in a deity will never convince those who do not and vice versa. Neither side has an absolute truth that can prove or disprove the other.

I dont think anyone can be born with a belief can they? I agree there is no harm in discussing them but what is the point? Those who believe in a deity will never convince those who do not and vice versa. Neither side has an absolute truth that can prove or disprove the other.

Yep i dont think no one can be born with a belief, it is implemented within there lives via education, experiences etc... i.e us talking about it now is a way of learning... dont you agree?

If you was to express something you believe and i was to listen...I can either argue with you, agree with you...Or take it into account and bear it in mind. Maybe oneday i will think about what you told me and it might even change my beliefs...?

Do you know what I like most about my religious beliefs? It is the fact that they are mine and give me comfort. I dont try to force them onto anyone or try to explain why everyone else is wrong and must be a moron for not believing. I dont try to justify them with facts, fiction or theories. I dont need to because I dont give a flying feck if anyone else believes in what I believe in or not.

 

My beliefs work for me...thats all that matters.

Haha, had to use that somewhere

I didn't have a particularly religious upbringing, but still went to Sunday school etc etc, and as a member of the worldwide family of Scouts I quite literally carried the flag on many ocassions. The sense of togetherness and well-being in the church was superb, and I would've become a devout Christian if it wasn't for one small problem - I didn't believe a fecking word of it, even at that age.

Do you know what I like most about my religious beliefs? It is the fact that they are mine and give me comfort. I dont try to force them onto anyone or try to explain why everyone else is wrong and must be a moron for not believing. I dont try to justify them with facts, fiction or theories. I dont need to because I dont give a flying feck if anyone else believes in what I believe in or not.

 

My beliefs work for me...thats all that matters.

Bloody Class post there sir

i believe there simply must be more out there, although im a scientist, so i ought to believe in darwinism/evolution. at the end of the day, life is about gaining and then passing on knowledge.

like Col said, my religion comforts me, and this is universally true. to be quite honest, the whole afterlife terrifies me, in a way that only Woody Allen would understand, but i will die one day, and my religion tells me it will all be ok.....

Colin dude, this is OK at the moment because as mentioned we're all being polite and just putting viewpoints forward. I have learnt some things from this thread - they haven't changed my beliefs very much - but I'm glad I've read them, it's an interesting discussion. It seems a lot of people try and stop threads they don't like the sound of - as Jake said before just don't read it!!

This is a rational argument against each others ideals, as long we don't start replying with insulting remarks it'll be fine.

Exactly! Believing in evolution can be considered just a "religion", really. But I explicitly stated that I wasn't 100% convinced by evolution theories, whereas you are (I understand - sorry if I'm being presumptuous) 100% convinced of the existence of your "God".

I think that's a major factor in my aethiesm, almost all I've seen of any religion suggests they are 'forced' onto you by your parents (majority! Don't mention your exceptions please), and it is certain that it is the right way and must be adhered to.

Aethiesm and other similar religions (?) are much more open (hence my anger at people saying aethiests strictly DON'T believe in god and MUST believe in evolution!), it's what you want it to be, there may be a creator but as mentioned earlier it doesn't have to be a 'God' (whatever that means anyway).

Also, science is a changing belief all the time, we can only possibly base it on current knowledge. People always say "Yeah but we used to think the world was flat, science said it was so it must be true!". Yes, at the time it was true, now we've learnt that it is not true, just the same as in the future we will learn that other things aren't true. I could prove that mathematically 0.9 recurring is in fact equal to 1, and that 1 + 1 equals 2, but I can't say that won't change in the future because there's every chance of that being false just as the 'proofs' of evolution and the universe could be false.

That's why I love science, religion will never change and adapt to new information, maybe you could say there is no proof in science - only an adaptable theory, but that's still better than no possibility for change at all.

[iMO]

That's why I love science, religion will never change and adapt to new information, maybe you could say there is no proof in science - only an adaptable theory, but that's still better than no possibility for change at all.

Dont forget some religions are very closely knit to science...There have been revelations that have only recently been found by man but were mentioned thousands of years ago in religious texts.

Dont forget some religions are very closely knit to science...There have been revelations that have only recently been found by man but were mentioned thousands of years ago in religious texts.

"Religious texts" Now don't get me wrong, I'm not a expert on history, but I'm sure that they didn't have mobiles in them days..

:ecstatic:

"Religious texts" Now don't get me wrong, I'm not a expert on history, but I'm sure that they didn't have mobiles in them days..

 

:ecstatic:

for instance....

the quran gives detailed information on how a feotus develops, the various stages that take place etc etc in the womb uptill birth.... stuff "science" came across hundreds of years later... theres MANY other detailed events and processes (nature) described in detail too....

Dont forget some religions are very closely knit to science...There have been revelations that have only recently been found by man but were mentioned thousands of years ago in religious texts.

- very good point... some "religions" are more a way of life rather then just pray and get on with it how you want....

I think some of you have taken my post the wrong way. I wasn't suggesting that it isnt OK to talk about religions and beliefs. I was just pointing out that there are no absolute truths and what works for me is not necessarily going to work for others. Therefore the debate can go on and on for years and still not come to any conclusion - other than to conclude that we all believe in something different (or not as the case may be).

Yeah I know m8, just saying there's no harm in talking about it as long as it doesn't turn into a slagging off thread!!!

Yeah I know m8, just saying there's no harm in talking about it as long as it doesn't turn into a slagging off thread!!!

- its a very good debate tho! and at the end of the day, can help clear up misconceptions people have

are you two still on this....?

right... Politics....

Yeah this is the best thread we've had on here for ages!!

I'm suprised Cliff hasn't got involved yet - maybe he's just preparing his thesis at the moment!

we are all animals............ religion is for the ...........

Yeah this is the best thread we've had on here for ages!!

 

I'm suprised Cliff hasn't got involved yet - maybe he's just preparing his thesis at the moment!

Cliff Richards?

No, not quite, in fact not even close!

I was talking about this guy.

Had some very good arguments with him in the past!

No, not quite, in fact not even close!

 

I was talking about this guy.

Had some very good arguments with him in the past!

I was joking...cliff richards is very religious i hear....

OK, I know I said i would write no more, but here is the very last post.

Science and religion mix, has been mentioned. Well, it can work perfectly according to some top scientists. You cannot tie up evolution and religion, as the theories of evolution are contrary to Genesis.

HOWEVER, there is a very fast growing movement with some VERY heavyweight scientists behind it. Creation science. For those who are unsure of exactly what it is read on. CS is based on re examining the ancient evidence found by archaeologists. The same evidence, just leaving out all assumptions and theory. What do you get? Genesis. Well some in the scientific community are doing everything they can to try and halt the progress of this movement, but to no avail, as it defends itself with what it can prove rather than theorise.

I, in 6 years of research into the evolution vs creation battle have yet to read an article or talk to a creation scientist and hear one single assumption. The main difference in the two sides is creationists include the effects of the great flood to establish age.

It is easy to think these guys are some weirdo's on an agenda, but to the contrary they have some serious backup. Their findings seem so much more logical and need a lot less faith to believe, and they always seem to be able to use scientifically proven methods to prove their point. I even went as far as going to a lecture on this and have never been as amazed at the findings of any study.

Also it seems that many people in science were on an agenda when writing their Godless texts. Take for example Darwin, the death of his daughter left him very bitter at God, Darwin having been a religious man until then. He set out to disprove the existence of God and nearly did it. Hawking finds it easy to justify his own unique existence to himself by explaining his personal issues in evolutionary terms.

The sort of scientist involved in the Creation science movement (who reject man from the ape and evolution) are the likes of;

Dr Jerry R Bergman - instructor of science at northwest state college Ohio, BS (Psychology) MS (Psychology) PhD (Human Biology) MA (sociology) and a second PhD (psychology from another uni) has been a consultant for over 20 science books.

Dr John K G Kramer - Biochemist - Bsc(hons) MSc PhD currently scientific sub editor of Lipids scientific magazine.

Dr Paul Giem - Ba (Chemistry) MA (religion) MD currently working with carbon-14 dating methods.

Dr Henry Zuill - BA MA (Biology) of union college.

Jonathan D Sarfati - Bsc(hons) chemistry (PhD) physical chemistry.- research scientist.

Dr Ariel A Roth - BA MS PhD (Biology) - Director of underwater research sponsored by US national Oceanic and atmospheric admin, and was editor of ORIGINS journal for 23 years.

Dr. Timothy G Standish, BS (Zoology) MS (Biology) PhD (Biology) - genetics research

There is half a dozen of about 55 I know, and there are hundreds. Some of the most respected and experienced Surgeons I know are very religious people who totally refute evolution, one even lectures against it in his spare time.

I believe we are free to choose our own beliefs, and after years of study on this subject, I conclude that the most factual and believable choice is creation science. You dont have to consider it, but I find it fascinating. Just thought I'd share.

Yeah, your right I believe there is a God, scary as it may seem!, but I dont blame him for Satan's corruption. Two sides to every story

Sorry to disturb this brief moment of peace and calm in a religious debate but I can't let Chief's promotion of creation "science" slip by without comment.

This pseudo-scientific nonsense is promoted by various protestant fundamentalist groups from which there are bound to be members with some form of academic qualification. However, I could equally find 55+ folk with Phd's who believe in astrology, the mystic powers of standing stones, ley lines etc etc etc.

Creationism is NOT supported by the vast majority of scientists and creation "science" is laughable at best.

I recommend the teachings of Bill Hicks if anyone wants an erudite critique of christian fundamentalism and its relationship with evolutionary theory.

You cannot tie up evolution and religion, as the theories of evolution are contrary to Genesis.

I'll repeat it again. Not necessarily true. There are other religions besides yours, Chief!

Hawking finds it easy to justify his own unique existence to himself by explaining his personal issues in evolutionary terms.

Oh crikey! Don't go all Glenn Hoddle on us!!!

As usual Creation science based on what can be proven gets under the skin of those unwilling to accept any ideas outside their own. A pleasant debate dies once again. Lets see in 10 years time what science is strongest.

I guess this is the Gorilla coming out in you lmao

I'll repeat it again. Not necessarily true. There are other religions besides yours, Chief!

 

I'll repeat it again, it's totally true, although there are those who try to mate the two. However if it makes them happy.................so be it.