The next stage in the saga!

It was just interesting since if it passed the MOT then it can't be as bad as the forums made it out to be

It really isnt, the engine is running fine as far as i can tell but i have put it in the engine / gearbox bit because i have no idea. Its just the usual suspects jumping on the self righteous band wagon, RedMuppet etc....

The drive home was relaxing and safe, on the motorway the gearbox seemed to run fine, it didnt like to accelerate however, which to the inexperianced like myself seems like something is slipping. Matt reckons Torque Convertor...

It does raise an interesting question though, and maybe marbleapple can help me - can I legally refuse to let someone have their car back if they have paid their bill ?

Surely if you have informed them that should be enough, its up to the owner if he drives a vehicle not fit for the roads, especially if he demands the car back.

Another thing incase anyone is in doubt:

I'm happy with Matts work which is why its going back down again to have the gearbox looked over.

:Popcorn:What happened is this just a 24hr ban?

Matt has been given a 24 hour holiday from the forum and hopefully he'll use this period to reflect and think about his future posting style. The moderators give up their own time to help run this club, and they will not tolerate name calling. I wouldn't in real life and I won't tolerate it here either.

I have just found out that I cannot legally prevent a customer taking his car, all I can do is what I did - advise. Legally a customer can even drive away a car condemned by an MOT garage.

tbh tho why not spend another 2 grand on a manual gearbox conversion.

If i spent that much it would have been one of the most important things on my list

What a shame it came to this, these cars can be VERY frustrating, I have my fair share of experience in that department , I had a trip to mapping on Tuesday, had some issues during mapping that sees me only get to 0.8 bar, Ryan was very helpful in advice during and after the mapping session, I drive to ACE win best car on the day :D:D[OOPS][/OOPS], then on the way home get odd AFR's and a rough engine idle, first thing I do is book it in and get it on a trailer as I dont want to risk the engine OR breaking down on the public highway knowing there was an issue, this as you can imagine is very annoying but these things happen sometimes and you have to get them sorted, I fully understand why you would want to take your car to ACE, I really wanted to be there to but if the car is not right you need to get it fixed first if it could cause an issue to other road users

If at any point my engine builder (Phoenix) or mapper tells me it is best not to take/use the car, I would never consider risking it otherwise you put the company in a very awkward situation if something goes wrong

Hope you get your car sorted soon

*puts law hat on*

 

You can't have a disclaimer for death or injury, they are not valid in law. Simple fact - UCTA.

 

If Matt killed himself in a car that you had let him drive which was not road worthy as a consequence of the work you had done then you could/would be guilty of the negligence leading to his death.

 

The customer isn't always right and the next time Matt asks you, simply say 'no'. If he doesn't like it then tough for him, he can't take it from your garage without your permission otherwise it would be theft.

 

*takes law hat off*

 

Matt: love your car, it will look great when its all working.

Why do make you sign one on motorsport days / events ?

Matt has been given a 24 hour holiday from the forum and hopefully he'll use this period to reflect and think about his future posting style. The moderators give up their own time to help run this club, and they will not tolerate name calling. I wouldn't in real life and I won't tolerate it here either.

Cant argue with that!

Sorry to drag this up again but I have been thinking about the legal aspect on my drive home. Really not being argumentative but just curious as to the questions this has raised.

*puts law hat on*

 

You can't have a disclaimer for death or injury, they are not valid in law. Simple fact - UCTA.

Agreed

If Matt killed himself in a car that you had let him drive which was not road worthy as a consequence of the work you had done then you could/would be guilty of the negligence leading to his death.

 

The customer isn't always right and the next time Matt asks you, simply say 'no'. If he doesn't like it then tough for him, he can't take it from your garage without your permission otherwise it would be theft.

Here's where I disagree, if a customer has paid his bill then I cannot prevent him from taking his property, to suggest his removal of the car would be theft is ludicrous as I would have no title over the vehicle.

Legally I can only do that which I have done, something I have just checked on.

Now, the subject of negligence is interesting and I do not know if it has been tried in a court of law. But, the definition of negligence is the failure to exercise that degree of care that, in the circumstances, the law requires for the protection of other persons or those interests of other persons that may be injuriously affected by the want of such care. My circumstances where that the customer was demanding his property back despite being made aware of the faults, is that negligent ?

Muffleman would have civil liability (i.e. could be sued) as there is a breach of his duty of care to Matt should he let Matt drive a car under his control when he was aware of the danger.

I cannot stop him removing his property from my premises, and I sure can't prevent him from driving it.

There I am certain also a criminal element since there was a duty of care, Muffleman was aware of the danger, had a duty of care and failed to act... negligent manslaughter.

I totally disagree, if I knowingly let the car leave and said nothing then that would be a failure to act and negligence. But that was far from the case.

Things do get complicated but lets be honest, Matts situation is rather clear cut (especially when you post things up on internet forums).

I agree it's clear cut, but in totally the opposite way to you

Like I say, not trying to cause an arguement but when you have someone post on an internet forum expressions such as negligence, manslaughter, breach of duty of care and so on, you would expect me to make a response.

I've been trading now for 7 months and although not perfect, I've built a pretty good reputation - and you only do that by hard work and putting in a great deal of effort. Despite mentally beating myself up about Matt's car all afternoon I am now happy that I did all I legally could have in the circumstances.

Haven't we had enough cars breakdown on the pancake run?

You never turn up and Mike's little excursion was AFTER the run.

Not nice though, scary sh1te that.

You never turn up and Mike's little excursion was AFTER the run.

Not nice though, scary sh1te that.

Gethin did set his brkes on fire once though, and drove home with the hand brake:blink:

Sorry I've been trading now for 7 months and although not perfect, I've built a pretty good reputation - and you only do that by hard work and putting in a great deal of effort. Despite mentally beating myself up about Matt's car all afternoon I am now happy that I did all I legally could have in the circumstances.

Matt is pretty clear here that you have done EVERYTHING you should have with this project:

identified problems, fixed what u could within time frame, advised Matt of current problems etc....

...if he wants to drive it then thats not down to you - it aint your car and you dont have the power to keep someones motor against their will. you should have a clear conscious.

i think a few people are getting a bit over excited and jumping on the bandwagon here.

(as for banning Matt H for 24 hours.... bloody hell give the guy a break - he does ALWAYS speak out of turn granted, but is having a pretty sh!t time with his car right now!!! )

(as for banning Matt H for 24 hours.... bloody hell give the guy a break - he does ALWAYS speak out of turn granted, but is having a pretty sh!t time with his car right now!!! )

If you have issue with a decision taken by the Moderating team then please PM your favourite mod.

Publicly voicing your opinion of decisions does not go down well.

If you have issue with a decision taken by the Moderating team then please PM your favourite mod.

 

Publicly voicing your opinion of decisions does not go down well.

sorry mate but tried PM'ing (3 times) before when i had an issue a while back and got ZERO response!

hey ho, we're going off track a bit here i guess......

Just wondering (again) - if a member is banned on here, i'll use Matt as an example even though his is only a temporary ban, would they be excluded from the club stand at JAE if they were recognised? Obviously we don't know what everyone looks like, but people know Matt - say if this was a permanent ban, would he be allowed to park his car with the club at an event?

sorry mate but tried PM'ing (3 times) before when i had an issue a while back and got ZERO response!

 

hey ho, we're going off track a bit here i guess......

PM me. I'll talk to anyone.

Just wondering (again) - if a member is banned on here, i'll use Matt as an example even though his is only a temporary ban, would they be excluded from the club stand at JAE if they were recognised? Obviously we don't know what everyone looks like, but people know Matt - say if this was a permanent ban, would he be allowed to park his car with the club at an event?

Good question and one that I've been meaning to ask myself.

Will do it now.

PM me. I'll talk to anyone.

pm'd.

Good question and one that I've been meaning to ask myself.

 

Will do it now.

well.........what did "yourself" say mate?

And of course it's normally the other way round for garage owners.

Customers trying to take their cars without paying.

well.........what did "yourself" say mate?

I can't remember. I used some big words and went all glassy eyed, eventually drifting into a daydream.

Just wondering (again) - if a member is banned on here, i'll use Matt as an example even though his is only a temporary ban, would they be excluded from the club stand at JAE if they were recognised? Obviously we don't know what everyone looks like, but people know Matt - say if this was a permanent ban, would he be allowed to park his car with the club at an event?

Short answer is No, members permanently banned from the club are not allowed to participate in club events, that includes any hospitality we provide at events and club stands.