Do you beleive in God?

Its like the age old question, is there life on other planets except earth?

The answer: There are hundreds of billions of galaxies outside our own solar system (and we can only see 3000 of them so far, using hubble)link...to say there isnt earth like planets on them just like our own (where there is life), would be rather narrow minded IMO

That's a giant leap from "Is there an omnipotent being that controls everything we've ever known?" IMO.

That's a giant leap from "Is there an omnipotent being that controls everything we've ever known?" IMO.

Agreed. Was off track slightly.

Was merely to highlight that us humans don't know as much about 'stuff' as we think we know and the fact that there is a bigger picture to look at than a supreme being just watching 'us' (mankind on earth being 'us').

Who said god is a man?

The idea of there being a supreme being (God) is one I used to believe in totally, but the state of the world currently has tested my faith..but I still believe totally.

 

Its like the age old question, is there life on other planets except earth?

The answer: There are hundreds of billions of galaxies outside our own solar system (and we can only see 3000 of them so far, using hubble)link...to say there isnt earth like planets on them just like our own (where there is life), would be rather narrow minded IMO

Didn't The Bible say "God made man in his own imgage"?

As far as the amazing amount of Galaxies that are out there, statiscally there's bound to be life out there. I think most people on this thread would go with that-

However to compare that question to the existance of God is

slightly bizarre. As you say we can see Galaxies and stars etc, but in 39 years I have to tell you, I've never seen, felt or even dreamt of God.

To conclude...I believe in Galaxies!

Noooo! Hobbits are real I tell you. They must be - I swear there's one in our IT department.

Mate, there's at least one in every IT dept.

As far as the amazing amount of Galaxies that are out there, statiscally there's bound to be life out there. I think most people on this thread would go with that-

 

However to compare that question to the existance of God is

slightly bizarre.

But does it contradict the existance of god?

 

Why don't you look at the content of the presentation and challenge that then? He has always said that he is open to being corrected, so why not put your view forward and correct him if you think you know better.

 

in the guys presentation he explained how things we (the athiest) proclaimed to have found out by science were already explained in the Quran many many years earlier...........earth being round etc

if we were to come across a new major scientific discovery would this be present in the Quran also?

Should scientists be studying the Quran to see what else they've missed or should those that have studied the Quran be informing the scientific community of where they are missing things?

or is there nothing more to discover?

in the guys presentation he explained how things we (the athiest) proclaimed to have found out by science were already explained in the Quran many many years earlier...........earth being round etc

 

if we were to come across a new major scientific discovery would this be present in the Quran also?

 

Should scientists be studying the Quran to see what else they've missed or should those that have studied the Quran be informing the scientific community of where they are missing things?

 

or is there nothing more to discover?

yeah or perhaps more interestingly, had the Quran reported the earth to be flat it would have been silently ignored or interpreted as a metaphor This applies to lots of religious texts, more often that not it seems you can pick and chose what you want from what's there and interpret it in any way that feel is right - hmmm shame the same freedom isn't afforded to science

you go on as if its your way or the high way

its your religion that is the one and we should adhere to it

Really...have I said that...

If anything, I have always maintained that a good starting point is the links that I have provided, these are very general and should you genuinely be interested then you would take the trouble to go through it.

If there are bits that you are not sure about or not clear about then lets have a discussion on that (and I will do my best to participate) by quoting references and backing up your statements in a more intelligent manner.

At the end of the day, if you are waiting for someone to come along and do all the homework for you (prove this / prove that) then best of luck.....if this subject is something that really bothers you then make an effort and seek knowledge yourself and people will then help.

Worse come to worse.....each to their own..I let you live your life the way you want...and I expect you to respect my wishes too.

it seems there are several questions raised in this thread (as is nearly always the case with this type of question)

1. Do you believe in God? (for me, no simply because I don't believe in things I don't think actually exist)

2. Does God exist? (God creates a circular paradox and is incredibly improbable - all trustworthy, demonstrable evidence to date suggests no)

3. Are you religious / believe in a religion? (For me, no, I believe they are all MAN MADE and I don't follow dogma because I don't believe it any of the fundamental foundations. With possibly the exception of Buddhism, which is fundamentally different, in that it's about enlightenment and being a better person).

4. Are we alone in the universe? (almost certainly not, but we (humans) may not be around by the time any Earth based descendants meet ET!)

5. Science isn't perfect, surely that means religious belief might be right? hmmm there is simply no logic in that type of argument, lots of things aren't perfect but you can't infer prove or otherwise some unrelated belief because of it. Even if all science, evolution and everything else we think we know is wrong (which starts to get philosophical because what does it mean to know anything anyway - but which is more likely not to be the case) it still doesn't make one iotta of difference to the argument about the existence of God, or the truth in a man made religion.

and so on and so forth

Finally an interesting post...

in the guys presentation he explained how things we (the athiest) proclaimed to have found out by science were already explained in the Quran many many years earlier...........earth being round etc

Do you disagree with this statement of his? If so, discuss with proof and references.

if we were to come across a new major scientific discovery would this be present in the Quran also?

Certainly the Quran (or any Holy book that is professed to be the word of the Almighty) would and should not CONTRADICT it.

Should scientists be studying the Quran to see what else they've missed or should those that have studied the Quran be informing the scientific community of where they are missing things?

 

or is there nothing more to discover?

How do you know that scientists are NOT studying Holy Books such as the Quran already?

What about...Has science been able to prove any aspect of the Quran wrong to date?

in the guys presentation he explained how things we (the athiest) proclaimed to have found out by science were already explained in the Quran many many years earlier...........earth being round etc

Do you disagree with this statement of his? If so, discuss with proof and references.

Err, that would mean posting the entire Quran and saying "Look, nothing in there about it!".

What about...Has science been able to prove any aspect of the Quran wrong to date?

The Qu'ran contradicts itself, let alone when you start comparing different religious texts - so if there's so much contridiction, who decides which is right and which is wrong, how do _you_ go about proving which is actually the word of god and which is made up

you could probably spend your whole life (I'm sure people do) studying the contradictions, inconsistencies and mistakes inherent within a religion and between religions http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Contra/

There's very little "real" science in a book like that, what is there to prove wrong. Can science prove that The Lord of the Rings is actually wrong? Would anyone care, do we even take the science in it seriously enough to justify such a question?

Err, that would mean posting the entire Quran and saying "Look, nothing in there about it!".

What a well researched and a thoughtful post....

The Qu'ran contradicts itself, let alone when you start comparing different religious texts - so if there's so much contridiction, who decides which is right and which is wrong, how do _you_ go about proving which is actually the word of god and which is made up

 

you could probably spend your whole life (I'm sure people do) studying the contradictions, inconsistencies and mistakes inherent within a religion and between religions http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Contra/

 

There's very little "real" science in a book like that, what is there to prove wrong. Can science prove that The Lord of the Rings is actually wrong? Would anyone care, do we even take the science in it seriously enough to justify such a question?

I see that you have researched the subject thoroughly and have made and informed choice yourself, I respect that.

Like I said, some have already formed an opinion one way or the other (sometimes by making an informed choice such as youself, sometimes by sheer ignorance or laziness) and are desperately looking for others to try and prove them wrong...thinking that the onus is on the others.

What a well researched and a thoughtful post....

Didn't really need to be thoughtful or well researched.

Some guy claims that a (rather large) book had the answers before science did, someone on here says he doesn't quite believe that, you ask for proof that he doesn't believe it! That would require posting the entire (large) book, otherwise it'd just be another persons possible lie in saying it doesn't have anything like that written in there.

Didn't really need to be thoughtful or well researched.

Yes it does else its a waste of each others time.

Some guy claims that a (rather large) book had the answers before science did

And he gives a few examples with references.

someone on here says he doesn't quite believe that

Thats fine, but put the case forward with why he doesnt by quotes and references or examples.....

you ask for proof that he doesn't believe it!

Yup, trying to entertain a more productive and intelligent discussion.

That would require posting the entire (large) book, otherwise it'd just be another persons possible lie in saying it doesn't have anything like that written in there.

and we get back to square one...I detect a vicious circle......

My summary post to this thread would be, don't want to offend anyone and certainly didn't intend to....

http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showpost.php?p=1766646&postcount=334

Thats fine, but put the case forward with why he doesnt by quotes and references or examples.....

You don't get it.

in the guys presentation he explained how things we (the athiest) proclaimed to have found out by science were already explained in the Quran many many years earlier...........earth being round etc

Do you disagree with this statement of his? If so, discuss with proof and references.

You asked if Scooter disagreed with the statement that the Quran mentions the Earth being round (ie: He believes that there is NO mention of a round Earth in the Quran). How exactly would somebody PROVE that a book DOES NOT contain a particular sentence?

At the end of the day you can't argue against "belief", by definition - so if you're happy in what you believe and it doesn't affect others - then I don't think anyone can reasonably object. You're right, some people do go out of their way (from both sides) to try and prove the other wrong.

The one sure thing is that we (the human race) have got a long way to go, we probably have much more to learn that we've already learnt - the "unknown unknowns" are probably far bigger than the "knowns".

To be fair, extremes on either side are no better than each other. Any scientist who claims Science is on the brink of understanding everything is in my opinion, sadly very deluded. But, on balance the same is true of anyone who insists God exists without any shadow of a doubt. Your belief may exist beyond a shadow of a doubt, but the thing you believe in may actually be so improbably as to be discounted (in the same way we discount other extremely improbably ideas, such as that the Sun is a giant machine operated by Kangaroos, or something equally absurd!)

the saddest thing at both extremes, from my view point, if that you are basically saying you know the answer and don't need to look any further - I believe the opposite strongly, we know very little and need to keep looking and learning - we've got a long long way to go yet!

the Sun is a giant machine operated by Kangaroos

Wallabies actually, their smaller size makes it easier to pack more in there.

Wallabies actually, their smaller size makes it easier to pack more in there.

lol, good point Actually the size of the sun is an optical illusion anyway, its actually the size of a pea

You don't get it.

 

 

 

 

You asked if Scooter disagreed with the statement that the Quran mentions the Earth being round (ie: He believes that there is NO mention of a round Earth in the Quran). How exactly would somebody PROVE that a book DOES NOT contain a particular sentence?

Once again.....

Not only does he prove with references that the Quran says that the Earth is round, he also proves with references that the sun rotates on its own axis....something that science only discovered recently.

At the end of the day you can't argue against "belief", by definition - so if you're happy in what you believe and it doesn't affect others - then I don't think anyone can reasonably object. You're right, some people do go out of their way (from both sides) to try and prove the other wrong.

 

The one sure thing is that we (the human race) have got a long way to go, we probably have much more to learn that we've already learnt - the "unknown unknowns" are probably far bigger than the "knowns".

 

To be fair, extremes on either side are no better than each other. Any scientist who claims Science is on the brink of understanding everything is in my opinion, sadly very deluded. But, on balance the same is true of anyone who insists God exists without any shadow of a doubt. Your belief may exist beyond a shadow of a doubt, but the thing you believe in may actually be so improbably as to be discounted (in the same way we discount other extremely improbably ideas, such as that the Sun is a giant machine operated by Kangaroos, or something equally absurd!)

 

the saddest thing at both extremes, from my view point, if that you are basically saying you know the answer and don't need to look any further - I believe the opposite strongly, we know very little and need to keep looking and learning - we've got a long long way to go yet!

A sensible outlook.....agree that the 1st question is to figure out whether one believes that an Al-mighty exists or not.

To believe that alone is not good enough,

cause the next question is why did the Al-Mighty create us?

what is our purpose?

what are we here to do?

what happens after we die?

P.S: go easy on the unknown unknowns and the known knowns....you're sounding like

Once again.....

 

Not only does he prove with references that the Quran says that the Earth is round, he also proves with references that the sun rotates on its own axis....something that science only discovered recently.

interesting, when you say "recently", please qualify what you mean, some of the most ancient civilisations were aware of orbits and precession, whether that information was wildly known in all cultures or even repressed (ironically by religion!) is a different matter. I'd like some evidence that precession for example was first predicted and described (without "interpretation") in the Qur'an first (truly first that is).

 

P.S: go easy on the unknown unknowns and the known knowns....you're sounding like

lol sorry, it's a good phrase (it always was) until it got associated with that guy and political agenda, point taken though but I hope it doesn't detract from the point I was trying to make.

I can't believe this thread is still going.