what's your interpretation of 'reasonable force' ?

What if you'd lost the lower part your arm in a terrible accident and attached a prosthetic chainsaw instead?

So what you are saying is that in scenario 1 the baseball bat *wasn't* under the bed and it was in fact handily leaning against the wall in the kitchen right next to you when you clocked the fact the scrote had a screwdriver So you grabbed the nearest thing to hand and lashed out in fear of your life. Once. As hard as you can

 

Multiple bludgeonings instantly turns you into the bad guy so put everything you've got into that first clobber, am I right Doug?

 

-Ian

Yep.

Everytime I was asked inc ourt by a defence solicitor or barrister "Officer, how hard did to hit my client?" I always replied "As hard as I physically could." That way there was no ambiguity and it woud leave the Judge and the jury in no doubt and they could make their own decision. Sounds a lot better than "As hard as I reasonably could" because that leave it wide open to interpretation.

Also if I was aksed " Did you strike my client more that once" I would always answer "Yes". Often the reply would be "Why?" I'd reply something like "Because he didn't go down, or he didn't comply or I was in fear of my life." I was just a case of being honest.

I once had a fight with some body builder type whacked off his head on coke and he'd just thrown a colleague down a flight of stairs and was coming for me. I was, to put it mildly, shitting myself, so I didn't wait for him to smack me, I gave him my baton full on across his collar bone. I heard it break but he still kept coming forward, so I gave him another strike cross his ribs, broke 4 of those and it didn't stop him. So I lamped him on his head knowing full well that at this point either it was me or him. I fractured his skull and thankfully he went down. He still struggled and I broke one of his wrists putting the cuffs on.

I shook like a shitting dog after that one, and had a GBH complaint hanging over me for 2 years. He didn't complain though, his girlfriend did. Needless to say when he got sent down for GBH with intent on one of my colleagues and attempted murder on another, the complaint fell through.

I didn't at the time though think to myself "is this reasonable?" I just did what I had to do to protect myself and my injured colleague. I'd never experienced proper violence prior to that apart from playground fights at school & "milling" as a recruit. After that one, I never hesitated again for a second. Changed my perspective on everything.

What if you'd lost the lower part your arm in a terrible accident and attached a prosthetic chainsaw instead?

Would love to see the look on the burglar's face when he sees that!

Where the bat was originally is more difficult to prove!!

 

H.

indeed what Dougs info gets across is you need to know the law and you need to know the 'facts' that you need to relay to the police if necessary.

The morality is the same but what you say about the incident will in law determine your fate................criminals are very well aware of what to say or not to say...........honest Joe public are not and 'can' get screwed...........

Doug (Dug? sorry if I've got that wrong).... where would the law stand if you had say, a very big heavy torch beside your bed which you used in the event of power cuts, which you used to bash said scrote's head in? Claiming of course that you heard someone outside so needed the torch.

You took the torch with you to light the way. The fact you had it in your hand and used it to defend yourself at the time would fall under the remit of instant arming. A torch is a more innocuous item to use at night than say a baseball bat.

this always reminds me of the thives trying to rob duncan fergusons place - he gave them a right good kick in.

if this happened to me, id seriously beat the shyte out of them. infact id beat them up something sevear. Ive not been broken into before, and id hate the fact that some chav thinks he can takes what he wants.

Id probably see red, beat him to a inch of his life and then worry about the consuquences after - like always!

My interpritation is to do what i need to get rid of the little sod and make sure he wont do it again. However, im sure the court would see my reasonable force as being GBH:d Thats just the way it is in this country if they dont leave after we have kindly asked them to there isnt much else we the victim can do:(

In fact I know a guy whos girlfriend was set upon by a piss head. He was then punched himself so in defence he hit back. Once. The piss head fell, smaked his head on the kerb and died. The bloke got 8 years for manslaughter. Its rediculous, if he didnt do anything it could of been the other way round. What is he supposed to have done? Walked away with the bloke smacking around the back of the head?

this one girl in my town tryed to rob a shop - she was on the roof and fell through the skylite.

she sucsesfully sued the shop owner - even with the fact she had rope to lower her self in, a get away car on standby and a mate helping her with cro bars.

they wanted to lower in and grab the fags as the skyline was above the counter.

she got awarded over 5k for her suffering!

thats a better result than robbing the fags

Not on is it!

what makes me sick is the solicitors who take on cases like this - and WIN - if i was a solicitor i would not take these cases.

Without wishing to sound like a wuss, you lot are all assuming that the burglar is an unarmed wimp. Looking at the facts, you'll have probably just got out of bed completely knackered, half asleep and in your boxers. The burglar will probably be both prepared, wide awake, and armed.

Just food for thought.

Without wishing to sound like a wuss, you lot are all assuming that the burglar is an unarmed wimp. Looking at the facts, you'll have probably just got out of bed completely knackered, half asleep and in your boxers. The burglar will probably be both prepared, wide awake, and armed.

 

Just food for thought.

Good point!! I am a right moody b@stard when someone wakes me up though......

Most burglars are 7st smackheads too!!

H.

Without wishing to sound like a wuss, you lot are all assuming that the burglar is an unarmed wimp. Looking at the facts, you'll have probably just got out of bed completely knackered, half asleep and in your boxers. The burglar will probably be both prepared, wide awake, and armed.

 

Just food for thought.

Haha good point.

He might be put off if he saw the length of my shalong, as it freeley wofted up and down whilst running down the stairs to catch him!

Without wishing to sound like a wuss, you lot are all assuming that the burglar is an unarmed wimp. Looking at the facts, you'll have probably just got out of bed completely knackered, half asleep and in your boxers. The burglar will probably be both prepared, wide awake, and armed.

 

Just food for thought.

That's a good point for all the keyboard warriors

I reckon you'd either sit there like a bunny in headlights cacking yourself or you'd go completely beserk, depends on how your hindbrain kicks off at the time. Until you've been in a situation enough times to deal with it rationally you just don't know how you're going to react.

Keep a samurai sword under your bed (mines for cleaning my nails officer ) and always buy your local pig farmer a pint when you see him

What burglar?

I do on-call, I'm used to being woken up at silly times and having my brain assaulted by idiots.

Keep a samurai sword under your bed (mines for cleaning my nails officer ) and always buy your local pig farmer a pint when you see him

 

What burglar?

Are you the man with no fingers, and uses his tounge to type on the forum lol lol

What if you'd lost the lower part your arm in a terrible accident and attached a prosthetic chainsaw instead?

:d fpmsl!! theres always one!!:d

Keep a samurai sword under your bed (:

my bro has got about 5 of these on display in his room. god help the burglers at my place!

my bro has got about 5 of these on display in his room. god help the burglers at my place!

Or the rest of you if the burglars get to them first.

Are you the man with no fingers, and uses his tounge to type on the forum lol lol

Yes But I do try hard with my grammar

Yes But I do try hard with my grammar

haha - my spell check dosent work

There is no specific definition of 'reasonable' under UK law to my knowledge and they usually use a subjective and objective test. I.e. Did you think it was reasonable and would the ordinary man think it reasonable.

Contrast the farmer who (with the intention of killing them) shot people in the back when they were running away from him and a person who picks up a knife in a struggle and stabs the person in the ribs. 1st bloke is in prision, the other isn't.

I should also point out that on the subject of self defence, you are entitled to hit 1st, and still use the defence, but you must fear personal harm. If the intruder turned round and hit you back, he might too be able to use the defence.

As for the person who fell through the skylite, she would have sued the shop under Occupiers Liability which is a totally different thing to the crime she committed.

Without wishing to sound like a wuss, you lot are all assuming that the burglar is an unarmed wimp. Looking at the facts, you'll have probably just got out of bed completely knackered, half asleep and in your boxers. The burglar will probably be both prepared, wide awake, and armed.

 

Just food for thought.

Thats a fair point. Although when adrenaline kicks in it instantly removes tiredness and makes you incredibly alert.

I think things have been covered quite well here so...

...a bullet through the cock!

His...not your own!

A work colleague of mine encountered a man coming out of his front door carrying his television set. This guy was an ex para amongst other specialist forces and is a rather large and scary looking individual. His gaff being a flat and the only way out (other than a 2nd floor window) was past my colleague. He first hoofed the telly at him and then tried to get past the man mountain. He found himself chewing on the landings concrete floor with my colleague sat upon him. Police turned up and immediately arrested my colleague. It went to court and he got a conviction for intent to cause harm or some crap like that (I think they wanted to do him for GBH but went with a lesser charge to get a conviction). Matey with the TV didn't even get a custodial for robbery either. Crap innit.

On a hypothetical note though its all well and good to sit here and say you would kill the person invading your home but in all reality how many of you could live easily within your mind after killing another person?? The other point is well made, A pro burgular when confronted by an angry householder is going to have the fight or flight advantage over you and has for sure already been operating on a gallon of adrenalin thats waiting to be triggered. At best most householders will have a 40/60 chance. If you consider that said burgular will do pretty much anything to escape you could actually end up dead. Consider also that your possesions are insured, is it worth risking your life?

The only time I would react is if I knew my family was in direct danger, then all the rules would go out of the window as basic survival and protection instincts take over anyway.

The ideal thing to do would just hold him to the ground while gettin someone to phone the cops, but if it was my house and i went downstairs to find some guy in my kitchen id lose the mind and absolutely kick the living daylights outta him