Single turbo advice.

[Chris Wilson]

You need a proper ECU, end of story, IMO. Wait, save, steal, whatever, but get a decent ecu like a Motec and use the stock ecu to just run the auto box. Then you can run a sensible MAP sensor system, and fire the stock coils with no grief, et cetera. You are very wise re cast iron manifolds, they'll save a lot of hassle long term, again IMO. Put some mild cams in it, and you can have something very fast that still spools early. I consider Wes's car to be a good example of a small single installation, see if you can meet up with him and have a ride in it. It usually convinces people to do it properly

[carl0s]

You need a proper ECU, end of story, IMO. Wait, save, steal, whatever, but get a decent ecu like a Motec and use the stock ecu to just run the auto box. Then you can run a sensible MAP sensor system, and fire the stock coils with no grief, et cetera. You are very wise re cast iron manifolds, they'll save a lot of hassle long term, again IMO. Put some mild cams in it, and you can have something very fast that still spools early. I consider Wes's car to be a good example of a small single installation, see if you can meet up with him and have a ride in it. It usually convinces people to do it properly

 

Thanks for the advice. Can a high quality piggyback not still be very good? I am not happy about being locked out of the ECU so Motec would be a non starter, as well as being expensive.

[Chris Wilson]

Motec ecu's come with free software and free updates that give you full and absolute access to all enabled features, and all maps, unlike, for example, HKS or Apexi ecu's.

[jevansio]

I don't know if this is true, but I recal reading somewhere that people have had fitment issues with the PHR street kit on RHD cars. I'll try & dig out the link,

 

Link is http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?t=95108 might be worth dropping him a pm to see how he found the kit

[Jake]

Can a high quality piggyback not still be very good? I am not happy about being locked out of the ECU so Motec would be a non starter, as well as being expensive.

 

My Motec isn't locked. It was, but only because Tuning Japanese refused to tell me the password (Despite being paid close to 2k to map it twice)

When Dan Turner and Ryan Griffiths mapped it neither of them locked the map - it was a condition of me using their services.

 

 

Have you considered one the Link G3 ECUs? Ryan says they're pretty much equal to a MoTeC but are like half the price.

[Jake]

Motec ecu's come with free software and free updates that give you full and absolute access to all enabled features, and all maps, unlike, for example, HKS or Apexi ecu's.

Just to clarify for anyone who might not know; when Chris says "access to all enabled features" those features cost extra to have enabled.

Also the access to the maps depends on whether the last person to access the map put a password on it.

[Muffleman]

Have you considered one the Link G3 ECUs? Ryan says they're pretty much equal to a MoTeC but are like half the price.

 

They dont have auto control mate, not yet anyway. If they could control Autos I would be able to sell plenty of them

 

I would love MoTeC on mine, but the reality is the price of them So I have an AEM, which tbh I am happy with but you do have to buy a DLi too - so it's £1,500 for an AEM setup in reality. But they do control the auto, Ryan recently mapped Roberts and he is very happy with the shifting.

[Jake]

They dont have auto control mate, not yet anyway. If they could control Autos I would be able to sell plenty of them

Can't you just Leave the stock ECU to control the auto box?

 

I would love MoTeC on mine, but the reality is the price of them So I have an AEM, which tbh I am happy with but you do have to buy a DLi too - so it's £1,500 for an AEM setup in reality. But they do control the auto

You could have a MoTeC for about £1800, iirc. Not a huge difference in the scheme of things really, is it?

[Muffleman]

Can't you just Leave the stock ECU to control the auto box?

You can but then you have no retard pre-shift, hence clunky shifts and gearbox wear.

You could have a MoTeC for about £1800, iirc. Not a huge difference in the scheme of things really, is it?

Does that include all the activated options ? It's less than I thought then

[Muffleman]

Just had a look on Owens website, the M600 is £1,675+vat, but that excludes :

 

Lambda module £475+vat

Datalogging £110+vat

Anti-lag £165+vat should you want it.

 

And if you have a vvti, you need :

 

FBW control £285+vat

Variable cam control £265+vat.

 

The price you pay for the best though

[Jake]

You can but then you have no retard pre-shift, hence clunky shifts and gearbox wear.

OIC.

I wonder how much of problem that really is. Anyone actually done it that we know of?

 

Does that include all the activated options ?

Good point. errrr, no

[Muffleman]

OIC.

I wonder how much of problem that really is. Anyone actually done it that we know of?

 

I'll let you know in the spring, have a single'd car coming in that will eventually have a 6speed conversion but will be auto running a linkplus until the 6speed goes in

[SimonB]

Just had a look on Owens website, the M600 is £1,675+vat, but that excludes :

 

Lambda module £475+vat

Datalogging £110+vat

Anti-lag £165+vat should you want it.

 

And if you have a vvti, you need :

 

FBW control £285+vat

Variable cam control £265+vat.

 

The price you pay for the best though

 

You don't need lamda control, that's for using a wide band sensor straight into the ECU without using a controller. You can hook up an Innovate, AEM etc wideband to one of the analogue inputs without the lamda option. Unless you are doing your own tinkering with the maps you don't need logging either.

 

You can also lock maps on an Emanage IIRC, it's down to the tuner not the ECU. I think tuning japanese is about the only place that locks them. Owens certainly don't.

[paul mac]

carlos, i would'nt get to hung up on the cast manifold thing, i have asked the question on here a couple of times about who has actually had a tubular manifold fail and have had no replys at all, if your going T61 dont get to hung up on 2 grands worth of ecu, mine runs a "crappy" SAFC at 500 rwhp, its been running now for 2 years, you do not need to spend mega bucks on an ecu contrary to what some people on here might say, i would say an e-manage is more than up to the job, if you want a test blat at mascrat give me a shout as mine is an auto (boostlogic)

[rob wild]

I haven't been in one, no, but with a super small dbb single and a cast manifold, I expect I should be seeing more power at less than 3500rpm than I do with the half-twin setup at that point, wouldn't you agree?

 

Yes it is possible to have a single set up to out spool the stock system but i found BPU to be very smooth and much better off the line / low down which is what i meant really (different type of drive) i.e. the way my single set up was before that it was not laggy low down (sub 3000) but it wasn't as sharp as BPU but after say 3800 it was pulling much much harder.

 

You need a proper ECU, end of story, IMO. Wait, save, steal, whatever, but get a decent ecu like a Motec and use the stock ecu to just run the auto box. Then you can run a sensible MAP sensor system, and fire the stock coils with no grief, et cetera. You are very wise re cast iron manifolds, they'll save a lot of hassle long term, again IMO. Put some mild cams in it, and you can have something very fast that still spools early. I consider Wes's car to be a good example of a small single installation, see if you can meet up with him and have a ride in it. It usually convinces people to do it properly

 

Thanks for the advice. Can a high quality piggyback not still be very good? I am not happy about being locked out of the ECU so Motec would be a non starter, as well as being expensive.

 

Everyone has their own opinion on this but from the experience i've had in the single cars that i've been out in/driven that if you can get somebody to map a piggyback correctly you could be very happy with the results. A prime example of this is Paul Mac's car which is producing 510rwhp on a T61 boostlogic set up, 550cc injectors and a piggyback SAFC. That car was excellent when he took me out for a test drive Similarly i have been happy with my EMU but my set up is now getting more complex so after taking much advice i have upgraded to a AEM set up as i am sticking with the autobox (boostlogic).

[rob wild]

carlos, i would'nt get to hung up on the cast manifold thing, i have asked the question on here a couple of times about who has actually had a tubular manifold fail and have had no replys at all, if your going T61 dont get to hung up on 2 grands worth of ecu, mine runs a "crappy" SAFC at 500 rwhp, its been running now for 2 years, you do not need to spend mega bucks on an ecu contrary to what some people on here might say, i would say an e-manage is more than up to the job, if you want a test blat at mascrat give me a shout as mine is an auto (boostlogic)

 

Doh you beat me to it but your right! It was that 'test blat' that we when out on that made my mind up over the BL box

[paul mac]

Doh you beat me to it but your right! It was that 'test blat' that we when out on that made my mind up over the BL box

 

cheers Rob, all strictly within the speed limit of course, lol

[Wez]

Carlos, when you are next down this way let me know, I am more than happy to go over my cast setup with you

 

I have an Arnout manifold which I havent fitted yet as I plan to change a few other things at the same time, I am currently on a modified Induction Motorsport kit with a PHR Stage 1 (60-1) using CW SMIC.

[Wez]

A prime example of this is Paul Mac's car which is producing 510rwhp on a T61 boostlogic set up, 550cc injectors and a piggyback SAFC.

 

What fuel pressure?

 

Thats a lot of RWhp for 550cc injectors, my fwhp of 554hp on 650cc is pushing the duty pretty high as is RyanG at 566hp on 650cc`s.

[paul mac]

What fuel pressure?

 

Thats a lot of RWhp for 550cc injectors, my fwhp of 554hp on 650cc is pushing the duty pretty high as is RyanG at 566hp on 650cc`s.

 

no idea Wez, there is a gauge on the FPR in the engine bay but thats no much use when driving, to be honest i dont really concern myself with how its set up, i built it, then got an expert (thor) to set it up, like i said its been running 2 years now so i guess its setup right

[Wez]

no idea Wez, there is a gauge on the FPR in the engine bay but thats no much use when driving, to be honest i dont really concern myself with how its set up, i built it, then got an expert (thor) to set it up, like i said its been running 2 years now so i guess its setup right

 

Fair enough

[Wez]

If you dont want big horse power the you wont need injectors or the managment, you can go single and run on the stock ecu and injectors fine. You would have to uprate the pump though. You would get 420bhp without any probs but the torque from the single would be the big benifit.

 

:blink:

[Jake]

Thats a lot of RWhp for 550cc injectors

At the risk of upsetting Paul again, IIRC his 510rwhp is actually at the hubs on Thor's dyno.

 

Unless you've had it measured elsewhere since ths last came up, Paul?

[paul mac]

At the risk of upsetting Paul again, IIRC his 510rwhp is actually at the hubs on Thor's dyno.

 

Unless you've had it measured elsewhere since ths last came up, Paul?

 

ahh Jake you turn up with a tedious inevitability at the slightest mention of Thor:p, i count Thors dyno figures to be honest in the same way as i count flywheel figures, yes they can be "massaged" but the one thing Thor have given me is a very well set up car regardless of the dyno figure

[Jake]

ahh Jake you turn up with a tedious inevitability at the slightest mention of Thor

Don't be like that Paul, I'm trying to keep it friendly - it's true though that the 510 RWHP you mention is actually at the hubs rather than the wheels, isn't it?