Lee P Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 I've had this post brought to my attention enough times to work up the energy to respond. Datalogs of a 6th gear WOT pull from 2000rpm please. Or a video of the AFR gauge. Anything to show the stock ECU somehow NOT running 14:1 afrs until 4000rpm at full boost. A detcan recording at that point to 4500 once it gets past the transition point that is notorious for causing det on small singles would be nice too. Until then I'm at a loss as to how you can say such things in good faith when the history on this forum of people coming along singing the cheapest, shonkiest single upgrades' praises has been such an expensive disaster. -Ian The AFRs were fine, we were seeing 11-10 on wot while on boost. We took the car to SRR to have it checked and the guys there said it was really good no det and there was room for more as the fueling was good. The only problem was it is an auto so they had trouble getting a plot below 4000rpm. I have attached the the graphs to show the afrs & bhp. There was no det and it pulled really well. We had the normal dip in the afrs when it changed gear so we wired the pump 12volt. I know what your saying Ian, when I built my car I would not of even considered running the stock ecu, I didnt even think it would run very well, but because this car was on a budget and we did it bit by bit we tried it and I was amazed how it performed. My point is that if you dont want huge horse power but you want to go single it works. Obviously you are limited to what the stock injectors can flow but its perfect if you want just over 400bhp but the reliability of the stock setup. The stock ECU is alot more sophisticated than people realise, when you fit a piggyback there will always be a conflict between them as the stock ECU is trying to make corrections all the time. We proved this by fitting emanage ulimate and 720cc injectors to this car, ok it now runs 445bhp at 1.05 bar of boost with much more potential to come but the fueling is a lot more erratic and its hard to get it to run right low down. So we have now put £1300 more into the car for 40bhp and compromissed the drivability. It was mint on the stock ECU, no fueling issues what so ever and started on the button. Here is the link to the car if anyone is interested http://www.sussexjapclub.com/garage.php?mode=view_vehicle&CID=68 Sorry for the long post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 Just to clarify, are you saying you used 440cc injectors and a stock ECU on a single? Have you seen the stock ECU map and what it does around the transition point? The timing adjustments it makes are massive. What turbo was it? By any chance a small laggy one? On my T67 it would fuel okay for 1st and 2nd, but there it went seriously lean when the turbo was spooling around the 4k rpm part. It went to 11.7 afr's with anything more than 20% throttle in 4th between 3000k rpm and 4500rpm. Besides, it's not the peak power you should be looking at, it's the way it spools and the fueling/ignition during this stage, in my experience this is where the single comes into it's own and where the biggest driving difference is made (Spool area is where turbo's like the T61's and T67dbb's rule) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee P Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 It is an XSpower T70 which is a simlar size to yours I think, it comes on full boost just under 4000rpm. The afr readings on spool were fine (surprisingly) and as I said we checked it on SRR dyno just to be sure. I know what you mean, the drivability is the whole pont of it. The single transforms the way the car drives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 AFR graph? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 It is an XSpower T70 which is a simlar size to yours I think, it comes on full boost just under 4000rpm. The afr readings on spool were fine (surprisingly) and as I said we checked it on SRR dyno just to be sure. I know what you mean, the drivability is the whole pont of it. The single transforms the way the car drives. Just for info, thats a smaller and more laggy turbo that say a PHR stage 1 or BL T61 (It's a 60.5mm compressor with fairly large exhaust housing). It's far from ideal to run this on 440's on anything more than 0.8bar (as found by a few on here). The stock injectors can only supply enough fuel for around 430bhp at the flywheel and will be very dangerous on the transition point at high loads, for the reasons Ian already mentioned. For reference of people reading this thread in the future, this approach is not recommended at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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