gsportcars Posted November 28, 2007 Author Share Posted November 28, 2007 Ok I took a quick vid with just the camera phone but I am having a couple of probs. I was playing the clip via VLC media player and there doesn't seem to be any sound from the laptop. Also it needs to be rotated as the picture is on it's side. I have uploaded it anyway but I don't know if the sound will work for anyone else. The sound isn't the greatest as you'd expect from a camera phone anyway but you will get the idea. Any computer wizards on here who can sort the clip out for me if it doesn't work???? http://media.putfile.com/wastegate-shutter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsportcars Posted November 28, 2007 Author Share Posted November 28, 2007 Ahhh.... Just clicked on the link I posted and it now works for me fine with the sound but the picture still needs rotated 90degrees clockwise as the boost gaude is on it's side. Just to let you know the maximum boost that was seen in the video clip on the gauge was about 0.5-0.6bar before I let off the throttle. And the shuttering does acually start at about 0.3 bar but you can't really hear it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike B Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 just listened to that this morning, doesn't sound anything like surge. you abolutely sure you have the BC wired in properly, and you have tried different units? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefgroover Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 Thats a weird sounding car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 That is certainly an odd sound. Almost like you've lost a piston. OK take the wastegate out of the loop completely if possible? Just blank off the wastegate flange with a metal cap. That'll rule it out once and for all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsportcars Posted November 29, 2007 Author Share Posted November 29, 2007 Mike have already tried plumbing the wastegate in without the BC and it was the same. Ian thats a good idea which will at least confirm that the noise is coming from the wastegate and not anything else. Although I am certain already that it is the wastegate making the noise as I can hear it from the screamer pipe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsportcars Posted December 1, 2007 Author Share Posted December 1, 2007 OK guys.... I think I may have figured out the problem but I just need some confirmation from anyone on here who might have the same thing as me. Let me explain..... I have decided to employ my absolutely outstanding microsoft paint skills to illustrate what I think the cause is. Below is a picture of the face of my T4 manifold flange and also the T4 turbo flange. I just had a quick look without taking the turbo off again and I can clearly see the difference in the size of the holes between the manifold and turbo. The flanges are both T4's but the actual size of the opening on the turbo flange looks to be considerably smaller than the outlet opening on the manifold flange. I could be wrong on this but I think that probably half or so of the exhaust gases are basically getting stopped as they try to leave the manifold/enter the turbo. This is then forcing the gas back into the manifold and causing excess pressure which is pushing the wastegate open..... Now, I have seen plenty of T4 turbo's with flanges like this so it could mean that it isn't an issue and is done all the time with no problems. What I want to know is if anyone else has this same type of difference in turbo and manifold flange and do they/ did they have the same problem as me??? http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/7808/t4flangesvx6.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soonto_HAS_soop Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 IF this is correct, as you say you have measured this without taking the turbo off - how is that possible? Then it would point to the fact that the wastegate spring is unable to hold the lower pressure. Without going back through the entire thread and checking, I'm pretty sure you said it was a HKS copy, i.e. an XS Power unit. These come with the weediest wastegate spring ever - based on 3.63PSi, and need to be changed to a higher rated spring so that they are not overcome with the exhaust gases, until your boost controller agrees. A start would be to try the XS Power 8.7 PSi spring and see if that helps. Here Think I may of mentioned this previously.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefgroover Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 what sort of boost do you want to run? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsportcars Posted December 1, 2007 Author Share Posted December 1, 2007 I haven't actually measured it. I just had another look at the turbo as it sits on the car and it is easy to see that the exhaust inlet of the turbo is significantly smaller than the manifold outlet. As for the spring as I mentioned before, I know I had a 1bar spring in the original wastegate cos when I had the old turbo on this problem didn't exist and it would open properly at 1bar. Then when running the new turbo with the same (1bar) wastegate the shuttering started to happen. The way I see it although only in theory about the strength of the springs is this. It shouldn't matter what spring is in their. If it is a 0.1bar spring then it should open at 0.1bar and stay open until you let off. Same goes for a 1.2bar spring....it should open at 1.2 bar and stay open etc etc. Also....I am able to see about 0.4bar of boost at low RPM before the shuttering starts so if it was a 3.63psi spring then the boost pressure would have opened it before it got to 0.4bar. Ernie I am hoping to run about 1.5bar of boost but after a quick read through some old posts saying that only 1.4bar is safe on standard block I might just keep it to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefgroover Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 If I were you i'd get a 1.2 bar spring, .4 bar over spring setting is a s far as some are accurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsportcars Posted December 1, 2007 Author Share Posted December 1, 2007 At the minute though Ernie I would be happy with the 1bar spring pressure just to get it operating correctly LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsportcars Posted December 9, 2007 Author Share Posted December 9, 2007 Ok, another update..... I have since tried a 1.6bar spring and a 1.2bar spring in the wastegate and the same thing happens although obviously the shuttering starts at different boost levels according to the spring pressure. I also removed my turbo exhaust housing to try the old 1.15 housing but the old housing was just too tight a fit for the turbine blades on my current turbo. When I fitted it the shaft wouldn't even spin so I had to re-fit the .68 housing. One thing I did notice is that the inlet on the T4 flange of the turbo is not actually smaller than the manifold outlet flange like I thought before. Although that is one possible problem out of the way I did notice how small the centre bore of the turbo housing gets before it actually meets the turbine wheel. I know that it should be small in order to speed up the exhaust gas and hence spin the turbo quicker but it looks to me to be way too small. I took a few pics of the housing so hopefully you guys can tell me if it is normal or not. I still think that the exhaust housing is the problem due to not letting the gases escape quick enough. Here you can see the small hole I am talking about. I just can't see the gases being able to squeeze through here without causing the pressure build up in the manifold?? http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/9461/dsc00240hk3.jpg http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/9461/dsc00240hk3.e3e5b932f6.jpg http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/1977/dsc00241op2.jpg http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/1977/dsc00241op2.97b32cba89.jpg Here you can see from the outside where the housing wedges in from the T4 flange to the small .68 size. http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/372/dsc00242xa3.jpg http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/372/dsc00242xa3.b198086fea.jpg http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/6550/dsc00243di9.jpg http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/6550/dsc00243di9.9e1615c43a.jpg http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/6463/dsc00244lw5.jpg http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/6463/dsc00244lw5.971d7f19eb.jpg http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/8065/dsc00245cb6.jpg And also a comparison pic of the old 1.15 housing and the current .68 housing to get a guage on the size. http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/7563/dsc00246zb8.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike B Posted December 9, 2007 Share Posted December 9, 2007 What an epic.... I'd be having a sense of humour failure by now. There are still a few things that you can do as mentioned earlier in the thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLicense Posted December 9, 2007 Share Posted December 9, 2007 This kit is for a Supra isn't it? Have other people run these turbo's on the 2JZ-GTE? If so I can't see the turbo housing being to blame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr keef Posted December 9, 2007 Share Posted December 9, 2007 What an epic.... I'd be having a sense of humour failure by now. . classic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsportcars Posted December 9, 2007 Author Share Posted December 9, 2007 No the turbo was bought seperate but it has the same or similar spec as say a BL T67 etc etc. they come with .68 housings but I want to know if there are different styles of housings. The turbo was said to be suitable for anything from 2.0L up to about 4.0L so the 2JZ should be fine with it. Yeah my sense of humour about this is declining rapidly. I know tere are things I can try but I am trying to look at this logically so I don't have to simply go buying new parts all the time just to test it. It really is the simplest of devices and setups and I can't see any other reason why this could be happening. I will see if I can get a different exhaust housing from a friend as I really think this is the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike B Posted December 9, 2007 Share Posted December 9, 2007 I will see if I can get a different exhaust housing from a friend as I really think this is the problem. I think you may be right. We should start a pool! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsportcars Posted January 10, 2008 Author Share Posted January 10, 2008 Ok guys after a long while getting not much done about this I have eventually got around to trying another few things. First off I got hold of a 1.2bar wastegate spring and fitted it. This didn't solve the problem. The shuttering now starts at about 0.8-0.9bar of boost instead of 0.3-0.4bar but essentially the same thing happens. This completely convinced me that it was down to the small turbo exhaust housing. After getting a fraction of a mil machined out of an old 1.15AR housing to let it fit over the turbine blade I fitted it to the car but again it didn't solve the problem. Although the car is understandably much more laggier now, the shuttering still occurs at around 0.8-0.9bar of boost and upwards. I am right back to square one now with this and am once again stumped. I have had thoughts that it could be just the make/type of wastegate i have but I know people are currently using these with no problems and they are simply a spring and diaphram anyway the same as any other wastegate so there is no reason these should work any different. The other thought is that maybe the XSpower manifold is that badly made that it is disrupting the exhaust flow so much that the gases are being sent towards the wastgate more than the turbo which is causing it to be pushed open. This also seems pretty unrealistic to me to the point where I would practically dismiss it as a possible cause straight away. I am picking up a new set of spark plugs today which I will fit and i also may borrow a set of coil packs from a friend if possible to rule out any ignition issues. this is simply to put my mind at ease as I know there is no missfire because the engine can be heard running smoothly while the wastegate shutters. Anyone have any fresh ideas for me at all?????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 I am picking up a new set of spark plugs today which I will fit and i also may borrow a set of coil packs from a friend if possible to rule out any ignition issues. this is simply to put my mind at ease as I know there is no missfire because the engine can be heard running smoothly while the wastegate shutters. Anyone have any fresh ideas for me at all?????? This is the first time I've read this thread, and I haven't read it all either, but I have seen a car that seemed to have, what I initially thought was a wastegate issue, turned out to be duff spark plugs causing a bad misfire, which in turn made sent to wastegate into a spasm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsportcars Posted January 11, 2008 Author Share Posted January 11, 2008 Ahh. It was mentioned before that something could be setting off this problem like for eg; spark plugs but due to the fact that I can hear the engine running fine with no missfire I all but dismissed this theory. I have the new plugs now anyway and will try them tomorrow. Still open to ideas though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsportcars Posted January 13, 2008 Author Share Posted January 13, 2008 Ok another update, Fitted new plugs and didn't solve the problem. I also re-fitted the .68AR housing as I know this is not the problem either. I did a test for boost leaks. I clamped a tin in place of my air filter on the inlet of the turbo. I also clamped another tin just before the throttle body to test the intercooler piping. I connected a mini compressor to the vacuum pipe that I am using for my boost reference to the wastegate. I could not get any pressure reading at all when I tried to pressurize the system. This tell me that either.... ....I have a massive boost leak which I cannot find ....the mini compressor cannot fill the system quick enough to gain pressure ....I have not sealed the system properly and have missed something (can't think of anything I may have missed though. Has anyone done this test before who can advise me further??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 Does it muster any pressure at all? It should be able to hold pressure up to the BOV base spring opening pressure, if you have a BOV fitted, and depending WHERE it's fitted. Surely tracing all the pipes from turbo inlet to TB inlet, and seeing if there's a BIG leak is pretty easy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLicense Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 You should be able to take the air filter off, and replace it with a tin with an airline fitting. (Ryan G is an expert in these ) Then with everything plumbed up as it should be, you should be able to pressurize the system. If you can't then there is an air leak somewhere. Even a small compressor will be able to pressurize the system. When you've got it plumbed up, can you hear air "whooshing"? If so then it's a leak. You need to get your ear in amongst the pipework (it shouldn't be difficult as you've probably dumped a lot of the dificult to get to stock pipework. You'll probably need 2 people to do this effectively, one to hold the trigger on the compressor feed, and one to find the leak as the air is rushing out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsportcars Posted January 15, 2008 Author Share Posted January 15, 2008 Yeah guys my pipe work is very simple as you would expect with a single setup. The other problem is that the mini compressor was very noisy due to running constanly so I am gonna borrow a proper compressor to eliminate this. Then i should be able to hear any leaks much easier. I also did this with the car on the ground and not jacked up so access to the underside of the piping was very limited. I will post more progress at the end of the week after i have had another stab at it. Oh and Chris it doesn't give any pressure reading what so ever. I have also been advised to equalise the pressure to the vacuum inlet on top of the BOV while doing this to keep it closed to eliminate this too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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