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what's your interpretation of 'reasonable force' ?


AJI

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On a hypothetical note though its all well and good to sit here and say you would kill the person invading your home but in all reality how many of you could live easily within your mind after killing another person??

 

If I could get away with it the world would be a lot quieter place to live.

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The ideal thing to do would just hold him to the ground while gettin someone to phone the cops,

 

Thats exactly what my colleague did. Didn't punch him or inflict any blows to him at all, he was however forced to restrain the guy as he was predictably struggling. He ended up with a conviction for his troubles. In his words, if it ever happened to him again the police would not get called. I believe the taking the scrote and dumping him in the middle of the brecons he knows very well was mentioned.

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I could kill another person with out a second thought if I felt that they had invaded my space to steal my possessions and possibly hurt my family!!

 

I would expect that if you have time to dwell on it later then you may be affected with guilt etc. At the end of the day, I didn't go looking for the situation so I am quite confortable with the fact that they got what they deserved!!:blink: I would imagine that they wouldn't give a monkeys about ending your life as long as they got what they wanted!:(

 

Maybe I am just a cold person but if you sit under an elephant you deserve to get shit on or even squashed!!;)

 

H.

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Thats exactly what my colleague did. Didn't punch him or inflict any blows to him at all, he was however forced to restrain the guy as he was predictably struggling. He ended up with a conviction for his troubles. In his words, if it ever happened to him again the police would not get called. I believe the taking the scrote and dumping him in the middle of the brecons he knows very well was mentioned.

 

That's the way to do it! Although you may get some retaliatory response if the scrote is stupid enough to come back!!

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I could kill another person with out a second thought if I felt that they had invaded my space to steal my possessions and possibly hurt my family!!

 

I would expect that if you have time to dwell on it later then you may be affected with guilt etc. At the end of the day, I didn't go looking for the situation so I am quite confortable with the fact that they got what they deserved!!:blink: I would imagine that they wouldn't give a monkeys about ending your life as long as they got what they wanted!:(

 

Maybe I am just a cold person but if you sit under an elephant you deserve to get shit on or even squashed!!;)

 

H.

 

I think a bit more than guilt would come back to haunt u, that shit would never leave u alone, ask someone who has killed another person, and not a psychopathic who has killed 10 people :D Few of my cousins and friends were in the army over abroad and said some of shit ud see would change u forever

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I've known a lot of soldiers say the same thing. They go out and in the course of their duties have killed people. To a man none of them have been the same person since.

 

I would imagine killing as part of your job is difficult to live with. If you are clear in your own mind that you didn't have a choice then surely that is easier to accept!

 

At the end of the day I have never killed anyone but I have tried to understand how you must feel. I have no time for scrotes or the criminal fraternity so I struggle to believe that I would be losing sleep over some scumbag!!:innocent:

 

I was once involved in saving the life of a man who hung himself over a split with his girlfriend. I later found out that he was a prolific car thief, burglar and a right nasty bastard generally. I wished I had let him swing after all.....:blink:

 

Maybe I am not a nice guy!

 

H.

 

H.

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Very interesting thread.

 

I was adviced by a policeman friend that should the situation occur and i did give the invader of my home a kicking, to just throw him out or drag him as far away from the house as possible.

 

If he decides to involve the law at this point the self defence bit Doug said needs to be well remembered.

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I would imagine killing as part of your job is difficult to live with. If you are clear in your own mind that you didn't have a choice then surely that is easier to accept!

 

At the end of the day I have never killed anyone but I have tried to understand how you must feel.

H.

 

H.

 

Hey don't get me wrong I certainly haven't killed anyone, I just know people that have and its affected them personally in one way or another. I am not trying to argue one way or another with your ethics either. All I was pointing out is that its easy to sit and say you'd do X Y or Z but the mental and other aspects (like getting jailed) are a distinct by-product of rash behaviour.

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Unfortunately the law doesn't quite see it that way. The scales of Justice are tipped in favour of the accused and not the victim.

 

I don't understand why this is not changed, any good person would not object to it.

 

Oh, did I hear someone say human rights.....or some EU laws.....:rolleyes:

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Unfortunately the law doesn't quite see it that way. The scales of Justice are tipped in favour of the accused and not the victim.

 

To quote the scenario that AJI has started you can look at it two ways.

 

You wake up in bed hearing noises inside your house. You keep a baseball bat under your bed and you grab it and go to investigate. The you confront said scrote and he comes at you with say a screwdriver and you smack him round the head with your baseball bat, fracturing his skull and killing him. The way the law stands, you would be looking at a murder charge or manslaughter. (I'll come on to self defence in a minute)

 

Same scenario again, you wake up hearing noises in your house, you go downstairs to investigate (unarmed) and confront mateyboy in your kitchen. He comes at you with a screwdriver, so you grab a knife from the rack and stab him fatally.

 

In the 2nd scenario, you would be arrested and probably be charged, but the law allows for self defence in these circumstances under the defence of "instant arming", ie you were faced with a threat and at the time you armed yourself with something to defend yourself. You felt your life was at risk, so you stabbed him. The Criminal Law Act of 1977 (30 year old legislation :blink:) allows for this.

 

But in the first scenario, you armed yourself prior to knowing what threat (if any) you might be facing and the law at present doesn't allow a defence.

 

Here are current guidelines on self defence and use of reasonable force. It's heavy reading but useful to know.

could i just say i thought i saw a gun, or does that one only work for you guys:p

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Good point!! I am a right moody b@stard when someone wakes me up though......:D

 

Most burglars are 7st smackheads too!!

 

H.

 

Okay, it is slightly amusing now, but it was quite a scary event. I was 18, had just got my first IT job, living at home, so had good money, so I treated myself to a VW Citi Golf CTI (VW re-released the mk1's in SA), and as such this was my pride and joy.

 

We used to live in a secure townhouse complex about 18 homes surrounded by 10ft high fences with security gates (This is not as usual as it sounds). Living on the top floor, I had a great view of my car parking spot.

 

Went to bed as usual, and then at 3am my dad burst into my room saying that there was somebody near my car. So out of bed I jump in my boxer shorts, grab the 9mm from the storage locker and leg it out to my car. Spotted said person near my car and proceed to use the classic line of 'What the f$&k are you doing near my car' with added benefit of a loaded weapon squarely point at said person. As he turned round I realized it was the bloody gardener water the plants as there was a water sanction on and he was doing it so he wouldn't get caught. The poor bloke absolutely shat himself, I'm not sure which was worse, me in my boxers or what.

 

After much apologising I went back to bed, so yes waking up and dealing with a situation like that is interesting to say the least.

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Without wishing to sound like a wuss, you lot are all assuming that the burglar is an unarmed wimp. Looking at the facts, you'll have probably just got out of bed completely knackered, half asleep and in your boxers. The burglar will probably be both prepared, wide awake, and armed.

 

Just food for thought. :)

 

That's what happened to me here a few years ago. I woke up in the middle of the night, opened my bedroom door to go to the bathroom and was stabbed. I was half asleep, it was dark and I wasn't expecting someone to be on the other side of my bedroom door with a kitchen knife.

 

It all happened very quickly and it took a few seconds for me to comprehend what was happening. There were 3 of them in the house each with a kitchen knife, fortunately they all did a runner, if they'd all started on me it would have been a lot worse.

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Reasoanble force to me would be enough to imbolise the little f**ker.

like snap his legs?

 

My view is simple anybody that forces their way in to my home is a threat to my life.

I base the amount of force i use on that theory :)

that is a good way to think of it

 

but if you break into someones home and start robbing their possesions you have forfited all your human rights at the front door

or the window like my bro found someone half in the window so dragged the shit the rest of the way in and gave him a slap

 

On a hypothetical note though its all well and good to sit here and say you would kill the person invading your home but in all reality how many of you could live easily within your mind after killing another person?? The other point is well made, A pro burgular when confronted by an angry householder is going to have the fight or flight advantage over you and has for sure already been operating on a gallon of adrenalin thats waiting to be triggered. At best most householders will have a 40/60 chance. If you consider that said burgular will do pretty much anything to escape you could actually end up dead. Consider also that your possesions are insured, is it worth risking your life?

The only time I would react is if I knew my family was in direct danger, then all the rules would go out of the window as basic survival and protection instincts take over anyway.

well thats one way of looking at it, but thing in situations like this can twist and turn in a second, there are loads of factors that can come it to play and put everyone in danger, i think the fact of having a 3 year old boy in the house would tip 40/60 a little more to 80/20 as i would open a serious can of whoop on his arse if he died then i would probibly spend the rest of my life thinking what if and think about all the things i could of done different but at the end of the day my boy would still be alive and that means i did my job as a father properly

That's what happened to me here a few years ago. I woke up in the middle of the night, opened my bedroom door to go to the bathroom and was stabbed. I was half asleep, it was dark and I wasn't expecting someone to be on the other side of my bedroom door with a kitchen knife.

 

It all happened very quickly and it took a few seconds for me to comprehend what was happening. There were 3 of them in the house each with a kitchen knife, fortunately they all did a runner, if they'd all started on me it would have been a lot worse.

fookin hell mate, i think you need to get your self some big walls round your house and a gun

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That's what happened to me here a few years ago. I woke up in the middle of the night, opened my bedroom door to go to the bathroom and was stabbed. I was half asleep, it was dark and I wasn't expecting someone to be on the other side of my bedroom door with a kitchen knife.

 

It all happened very quickly and it took a few seconds for me to comprehend what was happening. There were 3 of them in the house each with a kitchen knife, fortunately they all did a runner, if they'd all started on me it would have been a lot worse.

 

BLIMEY !!!

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Good thread this one.

 

Doug I have often wondered about this one, if I woke up in the middle of the night & spotted someone trying to break into my garage, what would be the best course of action. Would I be able to either shoot him from the bedroom window with an air rifle, run downstairs with a handy mag light or possibly do the call the police thing.

 

Trouble is by the time the police arrive they may have already left the scene.

 

Ta

Rich

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If I could get away with it the world would be a lot quieter place to live.

 

Someone told me (because I'm the same) that it's a sign of psychopathy (is that a word?)!! i.e.: If the ONLY reason you don't commit immoral acts is because of fear of the justice system punishments.

 

I'd be willing to bet that there are more people than anyone would realise, that would be able to kill someone (the right person) and it not affect them negatively.

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