AJI Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 So there you are one night, just got into bed and starting to fall asleep. Then you hear some noises from downstairs and you get up and investigate. You see some little scrote looking for your car keys and while he's at it looking for anything else valuable he can thieve. You catch him by surprise and then what ???? He will obviously put up a fight to get out... but what sort of force would you use ? Has the law been changed enough yet to allow you to kick the living shyte out of him..... knowing in the back of your mind that if you don't he will be just another statistic that goes through the courts and gets let off so that he can offend again ?? This is just purely hypothetical by the way... but one day with the justice system as it is... it is becoming more and more likely that this type of thing is going to happen to all of us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamanC Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 Reasoanble force to me would be enough to imbolise the little f**ker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havard Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 Ooh! This is my favourite subject..... I personally couldn't give a toss about the law and what will happen to you afterwards but I would make sure the thief/burglar got more punishment in a couple of minutes than he would ever get from British justice! I probably wouldn't ring the Police anyway as they are fooking useless! Put him in the boot of the car and take him about 50 miles away. Strip him and leave him to his own devices. This obviously works better in the middle of winter! You need to be careful with burglars as the will either drop broken glass on your stairs (so put your shoes on if you hear a noise) or boil the kettle and throw the water at you! (take umbrella down stairs with you). They also get knives out of kitchen drawers in case you want a piece of cheese in the middle of the night!! H. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colsoop Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 My view is simple anybody that forces their way in to my home is a threat to my life. I base the amount of force i use on that theory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJI Posted November 20, 2007 Author Share Posted November 20, 2007 My view is simple anybody that forces their way in to my home is a threat to my life. I base the amount of force i use on that theory that is a great line of thought to be honest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt H Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 It doesnt work this way, but if you break into someones home and start robbing their possesions you have forfited all your human rights at the front door Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eve Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 I agree entirely with H. If someone threatened my home, family or Supe I know I would flip...see red and then be on a murder charge! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eve Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 It doesnt work this way, but if you break into someones home and start robbing their possesions you have forfited all your human rights at the front door If only that were true..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustGav Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 If they are in my house... reasonable force would amount to making sure they don't go near the kids EVER! (interpret that whichever way). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havard Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 I have been to the scenes of some burglaries and they aren't nice. I have also been done 3 times in my life..... The worst one was where they had been in as a gang to an empty house whilst a couple was on holiday. The had taken everything of value, TV Video, Microwave, Jewellery Etc. Not happy with stealing and ransacking the place they shit all over the beds and also shit in a frying pan and put on the gas hob. We reckon the turd had been cooking for about 3 days before it was reported....... H. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 "Reasonable" is as much as it takes to stop them doing whatever it is they are doing in my opinion, if they can still move you've been too reasonable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 We reckon the turd had been cooking for about 3 days before it was reported....... Was it cooked through? Must be quite tender done like that, a bit like the way the Greeks do lamb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Class One Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 It doesnt work this way, but if you break into someones home and start robbing their possesions you have forfited all your human rights at the front door Unfortunately the law doesn't quite see it that way. The scales of Justice are tipped in favour of the accused and not the victim. To quote the scenario that AJI has started you can look at it two ways. You wake up in bed hearing noises inside your house. You keep a baseball bat under your bed and you grab it and go to investigate. The you confront said scrote and he comes at you with say a screwdriver and you smack him round the head with your baseball bat, fracturing his skull and killing him. The way the law stands, you would be looking at a murder charge or manslaughter. (I'll come on to self defence in a minute) Same scenario again, you wake up hearing noises in your house, you go downstairs to investigate (unarmed) and confront mateyboy in your kitchen. He comes at you with a screwdriver, so you grab a knife from the rack and stab him fatally. In the 2nd scenario, you would be arrested and probably be charged, but the law allows for self defence in these circumstances under the defence of "instant arming", ie you were faced with a threat and at the time you armed yourself with something to defend yourself. You felt your life was at risk, so you stabbed him. The Criminal Law Act of 1977 (30 year old legislation ) allows for this. But in the first scenario, you armed yourself prior to knowing what threat (if any) you might be facing and the law at present doesn't allow a defence. Here are current guidelines on self defence and use of reasonable force. It's heavy reading but useful to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorin Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 What if you claimed you were sleepwalking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 So what you are saying is that in scenario 1 the baseball bat *wasn't* under the bed and it was in fact handily leaning against the wall in the kitchen right next to you when you clocked the fact the scrote had a screwdriver So you grabbed the nearest thing to hand and lashed out in fear of your life. Once. As hard as you can Multiple bludgeonings instantly turns you into the bad guy so put everything you've got into that first clobber, am I right Doug? -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havard Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 What if you claimed you were sleepwalking? What if you claimed you had the urge to clean your baseball bat in the middle of the night?? (Not in an Amercian Beauty kind of way either!) H. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie_b Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 We reckon the turd had been cooking for about 3 days before it was reported....... Definitely not Al Dente. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spidermonkey Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 What if you claimed you had the urge to clean your baseball bat in the middle of the night?? (Not in an Amercian Beauty kind of way either!) H. or just happened to have a cricket bat with a breezeblock nailed to it for decorative purposes ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoboblio Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 Doug (Dug? sorry if I've got that wrong).... where would the law stand if you had say, a very big heavy torch beside your bed which you used in the event of power cuts, which you used to bash said scrote's head in? Claiming of course that you heard someone outside so needed the torch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havard Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 or just happened to have a cricket bat with a breezeblock nailed to it for decorative purposes ?? Would love to see your house mate!! I have a few ornaments lying around......a piece of 3x2 with nails in, a cattle prod and a rusty motorbike chain!! All decorative and not weapons!! H. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carl0s Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 Unfortunately the law doesn't quite see it that way. The scales of Justice are tipped in favour of the accused and not the victim. To quote the scenario that AJI has started you can look at it two ways. You wake up in bed hearing noises inside your house. You keep a baseball bat under your bed and you grab it and go to investigate. The you confront said scrote and he comes at you with say a screwdriver and you smack him round the head with your baseball bat, fracturing his skull and killing him. The way the law stands, you would be looking at a murder charge or manslaughter. (I'll come on to self defence in a minute) Same scenario again, you wake up hearing noises in your house, you go downstairs to investigate (unarmed) and confront mateyboy in your kitchen. He comes at you with a screwdriver, so you grab a knife from the rack and stab him fatally. In the 2nd scenario, you would be arrested and probably be charged, but the law allows for self defence in these circumstances under the defence of "instant arming", ie you were faced with a threat and at the time you armed yourself with something to defend yourself. You felt your life was at risk, so you stabbed him. The Criminal Law Act of 1977 (30 year old legislation ) allows for this. But in the first scenario, you armed yourself prior to knowing what threat (if any) you might be facing and the law at present doesn't allow a defence. Here are current guidelines on self defence and use of reasonable force. It's heavy reading but useful to know. Great information. I'd never have known about instant arming, but if the situation ever arises I now know to keep the baseball bat/bb gun/whatever on the landing or something and not pick it up until I've seen if they have a weapon. What if they were going to kill you by punching you and jumping up and down on your head and stuff, you know, the way most British kids do things nowadays? There wouldn't be a weapon to spot first would there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie_b Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 My view is simple anybody that forces their way in to my home is a threat to my life. I base the amount of force i use on that theory I'd love to do that, but as Eve said you'd run a good risk of going to prison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 But in the first scenario, you armed yourself prior to knowing what threat (if any) you might be facing and the law at present doesn't allow a defence. What about if you use your fists? Is that being armed with prior knowledge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoboblio Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 Looks like we've all thought roughly the same thing at the same time. I suppose if you want to go down the lying to police route, you could say you keep your baseball bat right next to where you hit him with it.... if he's dead he's not going to argue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havard Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 Looks like we've all thought roughly the same thing at the same time. I suppose if you want to go down the lying to police route, you could say you keep your baseball bat right next to where you hit him with it.... if he's dead he's not going to argue. True!! The police could only prove that he is actually dead and that you twatted him, which is the truth anyway! Where the bat was originally is more difficult to prove!! H. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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