Possibly the best xmas present ever - Supra ownership put on hold

[Pabs]

Hey All,

 

Just wanted your opinions/comments on the below really.

 

Brief overview - the company i work for has been bought out by a huge corporation, and now they are consolidating sites etc. This has been going on for 11 months so far. Our office consolidates into their facilities on 8th December. I am responsible for moving all physical IT servers/racks/kit, and for ensuring it all works at the other end.

 

I have a meeting at work tomorrow, (1 on 1 with management) as do a few other IT employee's in our company. Management refuse to tell me what it is about, but we all know it is going to be a redundancy meeting, leaving us without a job. They have already cut 90% of IT in the USA.

 

This makes the 2nd week in December my last week in a job. Nice Xmas present, huh? This is also about a week after the office has moved.

 

Anyway - onto the reason for the thread.

 

1. Our Bonus scheme works from Jan - Jan. I am told that you have to be with the company in Jan to qualify for the bonus, which is then paid in April.

Where do I stand legally if I am made redundant 2 weeks before January? Do they have to give me a bonus, pro-rata? Or is this at the employers choice?

 

2. I have been working for the company 2.5years (25yrs old) but only 1.5years as a permanent employee. This means (i think) that legally they have to give me NO redundancy package what-so-ever. Is this true? Do most companies give something anyway?

 

3. Because I am responsible for a huge amount of work in moving stuff to the new office, can the company expect me to work to the very end, not allowing me to use my holiday and paying me instead, and making me do the overtime required at weekends to move/install and configure the equipment???

 

 

Obviously I could be a right b*stard and refuse overtime, and this would leave them up sh*t creak, but then they could refuse to give me a reference. I could work my a*se off, and then not get anything for it?

 

Comments please peeps - I think they'll probably end up giving me something to try and keep the peace, but I want to know where I stand before the meeting tomorrow so I can ask questions and make sure they don't blind me with crap.

 

Thanks!

[Scott]

You are fully entitled to your holidays. I know that much.

 

That sucks mate, sorry to hear that. Its bad at any time of year but this time of year just makes it sting all the more.

 

Scott =op

[AndyT]

Pants. Sorry to heat it bud. Holidays ok. Rest of it I think will be company prerogative.

[marbleapple]

I'm not very up on employment law but here are my thoughts anyway.

 

- Get your contract out and have a good read of it. Also the employment manual. It should answer a lot of your questions - i.e. are you forced to work overtime? - if the answer is no, then you can say no to the overtime and they cannot write a negative reference on that basis.

 

If your bonus is discretionary, I think they do not have to pay it, although many would as a sign of good will (they want you to work to the end and do overtime don't they?).

 

 

Good luck with it - Its a crap position to be in

[Pabs]

crap, that is kinda what I thought tho.

 

The new company hemorrhages money left right and centre anyway, so hopefully a few £kkk will come my way to keep me on my feet at xmas....

 

Also F00kin pants bearing in mind I've only been in my new house for 1 month, so if i don't find new work quickly and fall behind on mortgage I'm 100% royally screwed

 

I'm hoping I'm intelligent enough and needed to find work, even if it's temporary, to keep me going though. I'm not going down without a bloomin good fight!

[Pabs]

- Get your contract out and have a good read of it. Also the employment manual. It should answer a lot of your questions - i.e. are you forced to work overtime? - if the answer is no, then you can say no to the overtime and they cannot write a negative reference on that basis.

 

The bonus is written into the contract, stating the minimum payout is X% blah blah blah, but it doesn't say anything about being paid pro-rata if redundant - only mentions pro-rata if you didn't start at the beginning of the bonus year.

 

 

Another thing to mention is that I'm 2 weeks away from signing new contracts with the new company. This new contract gives me a guaranteed severance pay, compared to the £0 legally in the current situation. I'm assuming they are cutting us off quick so that they don't have to give me this.....

[ivan]

Write all these questions down and ask them at your meeting.

 

If the answers are unfavourable, let them know in no uncertain terms that you now have absolutely no incentive in helping them make their office move run smoothly.

[Pabs]

Write all these questions down and ask them at your meeting.

 

If the answers are unfavourable, let them know in no uncertain terms that you now have absolutely no incentive in helping them make their office move run smoothly.

 

yeh - thats the plan, but it's not really the one I want to take

We'll see. I have to wait until 4pm to find out!

[Scott]

Best of luck mate. Fingers crossed for u

 

Scott =op

[Gaz Walker]

Good luck mate, fingers crossed it may not be anything to do redundancies...

 

Gaz.

[Pabs]

I really do appreciate all the kind words! Thanks to everyone.

 

They are now trying to play hardball - they can't be a*sed to come into the office today as a couple of the IT folk aren't here, so they want to reschule the meeting for next week. I've refused point blank and asked to get it done today, as I don't think it is fair to keep us hanging on by a thread.

 

However - some positive news is that the rest of the people that have been laid off all had some really good payoffs.... I also have several people demanding that if we do get made redundant that we are needed here until January at least, to deal with office move (and we need to be kept happy so that we can do the overtime etc)

 

Also - the phone has been off the hook all day with new opportunites, all on same or better money, so in general I'm a bit happier about the situation - but only these meetings will confirm exactly what will happen.

[marbleapple]

looks like it could be a good christmas afterall then

[Sheefa]

Haven't you got a Union membership at work mate that they can look into this for you? I agree with the above. Holiday is your entitlement but they certainly don't have to pay out your bonus if you're leaving prior to the qualifying period - even if not by choice. Sorry bud

[vvteye]

regardless of your contract they have to pay you redundancy for the whole empoyment period.

[Pabs]

no union that i'm aware of to be honest!

 

Anyway - I've found out that I'm on my 4 week "consultation period" which is basically the period where they will sit on there a*ses and do nothing - although they're supposed to be looking for internal jobs to redeploy me and my skill-set. However, with all the redundancies that we've seen over the last 4 or 5 months, none have ever had another position found.

 

After that 4 week period (to 14th Dec), if they haven't found me anything - they then give me my month notice of redundancy. This takes me to 14th of Jan.

 

This is good in a couple of ways - mainly the fact that they HAVE to give me the bonus, which is gonna be a big one, and also as I'm supposed to be on the new contract of employment, meaning that my severance pay is much better. However - I need to find out if they will actually put me on the new contract.

 

Overall, expected results, but no real definitive answers yet - other than I'm officially "at risk".

[neil tt]

Good luck, I hope you manage to sort it out:(

[marbleapple]

no union that i'm aware of to be honest!

 

Anyway - I've found out that I'm on my 4 week "consultation period" which is basically the period where they will sit on there a*ses and do nothing - although they're supposed to be looking for internal jobs to redeploy me and my skill-set. However, with all the redundancies that we've seen over the last 4 or 5 months, none have ever had another position found.

 

After that 4 week period (to 14th Dec), if they haven't found me anything - they then give me my month notice of redundancy. This takes me to 14th of Jan.

 

This is good in a couple of ways - mainly the fact that they HAVE to give me the bonus, which is gonna be a big one, and also as I'm supposed to be on the new contract of employment, meaning that my severance pay is much better. However - I need to find out if they will actually put me on the new contract.

 

Overall, expected results, but no real definitive answers yet - other than I'm officially "at risk".

 

Just remember not to leave for a new job with another firm until you have been made redundant. Don't want to miss out on the redundancy payment!

 

At least you get a big bonus!

[Pabs]

yes - I won't go walking until I know when the money is coming.

 

A little p*ssed at the amount they are offering me - it's a little smaller than expected, but I've got a meeting to discuss the amount and fight my cause!

[Pabs]

Well depressed as got my payslip yesterday only to find my 1.5 day overtime is only worth £10 apparently - so now got to fight to get them to correct my o/t payment ASAP as well.....

 

Gah - it never ends.

[marbleapple]

Well depressed as got my payslip yesterday only to find my 1.5 day overtime is only worth £10 apparently - so now got to fight to get them to correct my o/t payment ASAP as well.....

 

Gah - it never ends.

 

Seems incorrect to me unless there has been some tax adjustment. I am sure you will get it sorted out.

[Jake]

4 week consultation period? That surprises me.

When I got made redundant from B&Q head office (along with 399 others) the consultation period was an hour! They couldn't get us out the door quick enough - in case we screwed with stuff I presume.

 

Actually now I think about it, the consultation period was three months but if you agreed to go straight away they paid you 3 months anyway.

[Pabs]

does anyone have any recommendations for solicitors to get some legal advice?

 

Looks like they are trying to play "hard-ball" and are trying to do us out of a fair chunk of redundancy money, and we need to know where we stand.

 

The company will pay £250 towards solicitor fee's, but I have no idea if this is enough or not.

 

Cheers

[DaveK]

I could be wrong, but I thought redundancy money was often more goodwill than legal obligation. Although I think they do have to pay something, I thought that (legally) the minimum they had to pay was an assumed fixed salary - much like SSP. Almost all companies pay more (1 month per year of service or whatever the average is) - but I didn't think they were legally obliged to?

[Pabs]

u are right mate, but the reason for legal advise is different. I'll explain briefly:

 

We are on our company contracts, which are due to be replaced by the contracts from the new company in the next week. (Signed and sealed, and working on new contracts from 1/1/08)

 

Now, because we are "at risk" they are refusing to let us sign the new contracts - in fact they are not giving one to us at all. This we feel is unfair as we are only "at risk" at the moment, and not officially redundant. Therefore, we should be receiving new contracts.

 

The reason we are argueing this case is because the T's & C's on the new contract actually offer all of us more money (in some cases in excess of £10k redundancy package)

 

They have told us that our current contracts would give us a bigger payout - however - we have proved that this is not the case, and that they are discriminating against us because we are at risk. Technically, until they tell us, we are all still fully employed, and so should be entitled to the new contracts, especially as we are working well past the contract switchover date.

 

That's the short story - it goes into much more depth but I don't really want to disclose too much at this point in time.

[DaveK]

Hmm - you're right. You do need an employment law solicitor!

 

By the way - one thing to bear in mind (since they are messing you about anyway) - if you do see a solicitor, talk to him / her about whether they can legally make you redundant. A company I used to work for made several people redundant - but they did something wrong (I think they were actually recruiting for other positions at the same time). Because they are legally obliged to find you another role if they can they are not allowed to do things like that. One guy sued the company and won - he got offered something like £12K (this was about 15 years ago) or his job back. Idiot took his job back.