tbourner Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 The landings scene in SPR is brilliant, but then there are a lot of really good war films that teach a similar thing. I actually hate Speilberg purely for the way he ruined AI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbleapple Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 I actually hate Speilberg purely for the way he ruined AI. Can't blame you there to be honest! WHich other War films are worth watching? - Thin Red Line and platoon IMO are poor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbourner Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 Jarhead was pretty good, Downfall is also a good one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlotte Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 Private Benjamin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guigsy Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 downfall is an absolutely excelent film! saw it at the cinema. it was brilliant. very interesting side of the story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tannhauser Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 I think it's an interesting film in several ways. Firstly,it portrays a future that is very different from most films that came before it. Most visions of the future were rather squeaky-clean and utopian, rather than dystopian. I think it's one of the major films that starts portraying the future as maybe a seedy and frightening, violent place. I can see similarities with Blade Runner in that respect. Secondly, you've got those odd juxtapositions of violence and either humour or visual beauty. For example, isn't there a scene where Alex kicks a bloke to death in time to 'Singin' in the Rain'? (Same effect with Michael Madsen singing another feelgood song 'Stuck in the middle with you' while cutting off someone's ear.) And I seem to remember another bit where they are booting each other, but performed as a ballet. So I think the odd ambivalence towards violence is an interesting one and has been referenced in lots of other films. But above that, he asks an interesting question about crime and society. The psychologist B.F. Skinner had suggected that techniques such as aversion therapy (like Alex undergoes) could help transform society and eradicate violent behaviour. Burgess, in the book, and Kubrick in the film, ask whether the cure is worse than the problem. Alex has been turned into a good citizen, totally incapable of harm. But there's nothing left of him - he can't defend himself and his only other passion - Beethoven, has been taken away. So it seems to me that the film is asking whether the state has the right to go beyond punishment, to take away someone's personality and ability to choose. I don't think it's dated fantastically well, but it's still 1000X more interesting than some Hollywood tits-and-explosions fest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbleapple Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 Jarhead was pretty good, Downfall is also a good one. Thanks... Not watched either of these. I have been avoiding Jarhead because I thought it might be one of those 'Anti American/Anti War' films... i watch films for the films, not to be 'converted'. I also dont like films which do violence of the sake of violence (I.e. Clockwork Orange) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlotte Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 Interesting knowledgeable stuff I think you are a little lost on the audience here Cliff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbleapple Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 I think you are a little lost on the audience here Cliff. I think I am more the tits-and-explosions fest sort of bloke... Cliff is on a much (x10) higher level than me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexsum Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 I think it's an interesting film in several ways. Firstly,it portrays a future that is very different from most films that came before it. Most visions of the future were rather squeaky-clean and utopian, rather than dystopian. I think it's one of the major films that starts portraying the future as maybe a seedy and frightening, violent place. I can see similarities with Blade Runner in that respect. Secondly, you've got those odd juxtapositions of violence and either humour or visual beauty. For example, isn't there a scene where Alex kicks a bloke to death in time to 'Singin' in the Rain'? (Same effect with Michael Madsen singing another feelgood song 'Stuck in the middle with you' while cutting off someone's ear.) And I seem to remember another bit where they are booting each other, but performed as a ballet. So I think the odd ambivalence towards violence is an interesting one and has been referenced in lots of other films. But above that, he asks an interesting question about crime and society. The psychologist B.F. Skinner had suggected that techniques such as aversion therapy (like Alex undergoes) could help transform society and eradicate violent behaviour. Burgess, in the book, and Kubrick in the film, ask whether the cure is worse than the problem. Alex has been turned into a good citizen, totally incapable of harm. But there's nothing left of him - he can't defend himself and his only other passion - Beethoven, has been taken away. So it seems to me that the film is asking whether the state has the right to go beyond punishment, to take away someone's personality and ability to choose. I don't think it's dated fantastically well, but it's still 1000X more interesting than some Hollywood tits-and-explosions fest. that's what i said. dystopia of course was well founded in earlier works than clockwork orange, in particular orwell's 1984 which is simply the best book ever written. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexsum Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 ooops double post - dumb computers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tannhauser Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 I think you are a little lost on the audience here Cliff. Not at all . I know sweet f-a about films, it's only my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tannhauser Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 that's what i said. dystopia of course was well founded in earlier works than clockwork orange, in particular orwell's 1984 which is simply the best book ever written. Not so much on the screen, though, at least in what I've seen. I suppose Soylent Green is around the same time, but that's the only one I can think of that shows a future society as quite so, er, grimy and violent. 1984 is a great book, but I think a few million might take issue with it being 'simply the best book ever written'. Joyce? Flaubert? Proust? Tolstoy? Dostoveysky? James? Etc. C'mon.... Edit: Omega Man is also 1971, that's pretty grim, but again it's not really violence from within society in the same way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tannhauser Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 I think I am more the tits-and-explosions fest sort of bloke... Cliff is on a much (x10) higher level than me! Again, not at all. I like tits-and-explosions films too, if I'm in the mood for them. But I can get bored with them quickly, because really, a lot of those kind of things tend to have very familiar characters and dialogue in them. I love it when I watch a film and I'm unsure what it was all about and have to go and puzzle it out. Like Elementarteilchen ('Atomised'), which was a bit of a head-fuck. Or even....I think it was called 'The Swimming Pool' - that was an odd little film. If I don't have to put a little bit of effort in, it's about as satisfying as a vegetarian main course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miko_supra Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 No one said Kubrick directed it, just that it was another crap film viewed by many as a classic. So it states on the front cover: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Band-Brothers-Complete-HBO-Disc/dp/B00005UP86/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/203-0795364-8803926?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1194448047&sr=8-1 Think he co directed it with tom hanks as well. I thought enemy at the gates was a good film too. More on the subject though. i do feel that clockwork orange is over rated as are most of Kubrics work (eg again on war films...full metal jacket) but i still think cwo is a brilliant film. just not THAT brilliant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexsum Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 Not so much on the screen, though, at least in what I've seen. I suppose Soylent Green is around the same time, but that's the only one I can think of that shows a future society as quite so, er, grimy and violent. 1984 is a great book, but I think a few million might take issue with it being 'simply the best book ever written'. Joyce? Flaubert? Proust? Tolstoy? Dostoveysky? James? Etc. C'mon.... Edit: Omega Man is also 1971, that's pretty grim, but again it's not really violence from within society in the same way on screen i suppose metropolis in the 20s would be first alternative vision of the future. also don't forget the mighty planet of the apes (1968) - it is amazing how many of these films featured charlton heston. as for 1984 i stand by my choice, my only regret is not having read it sooner. the film versions both 50s and 80s were poor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewen Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 You know if I had the money I would smoke two... three of these every day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tannhauser Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 You know if I had the money I would smoke two... three of these every day. "It's people!! I tell you...Soylent Green is made out of people!" Great film. In a depressing sort of way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 Clockwork Orange is a brilliant book and a great film. It is of its time in many respects so when viewed in context ie before action films/ultraviolence were a main staple of cinema it was shocking in this respect. The story is of course not about violent gang culture but about freedom of choice versus state intervention. It is a warning against state control of the mind and still holds true. You'll be telling me Fight Club is about more than blokes punching each other next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fifty Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 :d Just watched some Batman - its bad, very bad Holy shit lol Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbourner Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 1984 is my favourite book ever as well, but then, I haven't read many books! Cliff, head-fuck, Mulholland Drive, WTF is that about!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tannhauser Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 1984 is my favourite book ever as well, but then, I haven't read many books! Cliff, head-fuck, Mulholland Drive, WTF is that about!! Yes, love it, David Lynch is as mad as toast. I seem to remember there are sequences with some tiny little people in it that don't relate to anything. Oh, and a great lesbian scene. Have you seen Eraserhead by Lynch? That's a weird, weird film. Ninety minutes of Jack Nance (who was killed a few years ago in a fight) standing around with the same worried expression on his face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daston Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 Speilberg really winds me up! SPR was a good film however he has done some crap in his time AI was a let down the book of that was good but the film wasnt very good at all. And dont get me started on War of the Worlds! I was looking forward to a film that was baised on the book for years! However Speilberg obviously didnt get any further than the quick summery thats on the back. Plus it didnt make sence in its story line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 I think you are a little lost on the audience here Cliff. (flounces back in) At last, I knew Tannhauser would be along to knock some sense into these oiks. Clockwork Orange? Apocalypse Now? Rubbish? Rubbish. You'll be telling me Fight Club is about more than blokes punching each other next. Did I mention The Hitcher is about one mans struggle with his homosexuality? Ninety minutes of Jack Nance (who was killed a few years ago in a fight) Jack Nance is dead??? Makes me think of "He's dead...wrapped in plaaastic" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlotte Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 David Lynch is as mad as toast. Wild at Heart for example! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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