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The mkiv Supra Owners Club

Single TURBO or Hybrids???


fastisnice

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Right,

 

Its time for a replacement of my turbocharges as they 've gone..I was thinking of 2 hybrids which they won't blow my bank account(My mechanic reckons they will only cost £150 more per turbo than standard turbo's).But I was thinking once i'm changing them to stick a big single one..Will I get a lot more power out of it?? Company which sells them reckon is good enough for 600bhp+ though I dont want to go mad with internals as i don't have the budget for it.What kind of power can i expect without having to change pistons etc...(I know i will need a pair of cams and few more bits).

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Originally posted by fastisnice

Right,

 

Its time for a replacement of my turbocharges as they 've gone..I was thinking of 2 hybrids which they won't blow my bank account(My mechanic reckons they will only cost £150 more per turbo than standard turbo's).But I was thinking once i'm changing them to stick a big single one..Will I get a lot more power out of it?? Company which sells them reckon is good enough for 600bhp+ though I dont want to go mad with internals as i don't have the budget for it.What kind of power can i expect without having to change pistons etc...(I know i will need a pair of cams and few more bits).

 

I assume that you are running a j-spec car with the smaller injectors.

 

Firstly there is no way you could run even the smallest of single turbos on a stock J-spec car. The fuel system is not up too the job of a single and only just do the job of hybrids running low boost (e.g below 85% injector duty cycle).

 

In order too run hybrids at reasonable boost you would need too consider:

 

550cc injectors + coil packs (secondhand)

uprated fuel pump

fuel computer

water injection or uprated Intercooler

 

If you were going for a single turbo:

 

Single Turbo with manifold

680cc+ injectors

Fuel rail

uprated fuel pump

fuel computer/piggyback ecu

uprated Intercooler

oil cooler

friendly insurance company

 

Paul Whiffen has recently installed a single turbo and may add a few things I have missed.

 

What is your budget?

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Guest Martin F

I don't think a single turbo and hybrids are comparable.

 

The hybrids have a purpose in that they are a reasonable upgrade on the stock system, whereas the single is a fairly large (read labour and system intensive) upgrade.

 

All IMHO of course.

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Im not sure at the moment,i 've got already an F-CON pro from my previous car and i'm aware about all goodies which i need for 600+. Not sure of my budget as im in the process of getting a new job.But i think i would like to spend around 5K to get at least most of the list (upgrades)..

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Originally posted by fastisnice

Do u think that you can get away with a water spray instead of a big intercooler??

 

No, in a word.

 

But as long as the stock IC is in good condition, it would do for running hybrids (but not an ideal setup). WI is additional protection rather than the only protection. :)

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Originally posted by fastisnice

Im not sure at the moment,i 've got already an F-CON pro from my previous car and i'm aware about all goodies which i need for 600+. Not sure of my budget as im in the process of getting a new job.But i think i would like to spend around 5K to get at least most of the list (upgrades)..

 

Obviously there would be labour charges and you would need better brakes and fatter tyres.

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Has anybody got any idea what BHP can i get out of 2 decent hybrids? and how much are they going to cost me?? (regardless of the rest(FMI,F-CON etc)- I have heard with camshaft,FMIC,F-CON and hybrids around 450bhp?? Would it be possible to get 500bhp out of the hybrids?

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Originally posted by fastisnice

Has anybody got any idea what BHP can i get out of 2 decent hybrids? and how much are they going to cost me?? (regardless of the rest(FMI,F-CON etc)- I have heard with camshaft,FMIC,F-CON and hybrids around 450bhp?? Would it be possible to get 500bhp out of the hybrids?

 

Well, I think a well setup Supra on stage IIIs could easily get over 500bhp, but making a car well setup is an expensive business, FMIC, oil cooler cams etc etc

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Hey Syed

 

What price typically are FMIC's? Price range?

 

It seems that, whatever performance parts cost for other cars, for the Supra it is about double!!!

 

I'm thinking of getting some FMIC kits made up here. I had a custom one built for my GT-Four and I was very happy with it, made a great difference. I could never get my manifold temps about 40C even on the rolling road.

 

The quality is good. Its not show quality, all polished pipes and shiny lacquer, but it gets the job done for a very reasonable price.

 

If there is enough interest, I would be willing to get a kit made up for my car as a prototype so that all the patterns were available, then its just a matter of getting my fabricator to make them up to order. I think if I could get them done for a good price, then there might be a lot of interest from the USA too.

 

For examples of the Celica FMIC, see my website, click Custom Parts. Prices should be similar to the Celica prices shown there.

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You can get an ordinary FMIC made 600x300x80mm for about £300 if you go to the right people...hard pipe kit would be another £150 max.

 

Add £500 to the bill and you can get a bar and plate style one which would be about 25% more efficient...which is a hell of a lot when you consider its just air flowing past a lump of metal dragging away heat.

 

If you can, get the best (not necessarily the largest) FMIC you can.

 

As for £500hp on hybrids...well that is possible but you'd have to be really determined...why cause of the restrictive nature of the exhaust manifold and head exhaust ports. They quickly become a restriction on the system which causes heat build up and simply can't flow enough gases out of the way.

 

If you get the head ported, some high lift long duration cams and get a custom manifold then 500hp could be made possible with the fuel system mapped correctly. But then you would have just spent the same amout as you would need to buy a Single Turbo kit.

 

I would wait a bit a fit a bigger kit...do it properly once. PHR Stage 2 Fuel Kit + Sound Performance SP66 would be my choice

I think they are about 6k to buy and that would be a 600hp kit with bells on.

 

FMIC - 1k max DO NOT PAY MORE

Fuel Kit - PHR S2 $2800 (£1850) + shipping

Turbo - SP66 $5500 (£3600) + shipping

+ Installation (or do it yourself if you have the patience)

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Originally posted by Alex Holdroyd

 

As for £500hp on hybrids...well that is possible but you'd have to be really determined...why cause of the restrictive nature of the exhaust manifold and head exhaust ports. They quickly become a restriction on the system which causes heat build up and simply can't flow enough gases out of the way.

 

If you get the head ported, some high lift long duration cams and get a custom manifold then 500hp could be made possible with the fuel system mapped correctly. But then you would have just spent the same amout as you would need to buy a Single Turbo kit.

 

 

I would have to disagree with you here Alex.

 

A full BPU car in the states dynos around 430rwhp SAE, equivilent to approx 430bhp DIN. So, add the 30% power gain that a well setup pair of hybrids can provide, and you get 559bhp or approx 447rwhp. If what you say is true, hybrids would give little more than a full decat + exhaust system.

 

:)

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FMIC - 1k max DO NOT PAY MORE

Fuel Kit - PHR S2 $2800 (£1850) + shipping

Turbo - SP66 $5500 (£3600) + shipping

+ Installation (or do it yourself if you have the patience) [/b]

 

These prices are making my head spin!!!

 

What's in each of these kits? Itemise them for me and I can almost guarantee I can do similar for much less...

 

FMIC should be more like £600

Fuel system should be simple, 6 injectors, a custom rail, and some hoses.

Turbo - hope that includes manifold and downpipe?!

 

Of course, as the US cars make 200% horsepower as rest of the world, the prices are bound to be higher :p

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Originally posted by Syed Shah

 

I would have to disagree with you here Alex.

 

A full BPU car in the states dynos around 430rwhp SAE, equivilent to approx 430bhp DIN. So, add the 30% power gain that a well setup pair of hybrids can provide, and you get 559bhp or approx 447rwhp. If what you say is true, hybrids would give little more than a full decat + exhaust system.

 

:)

 

Emma and Martins car looks too have recorded about 325 rwhp on the MIRA dyno (see members page). What does that make it if you use this figure?

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Power increases don't follow a linear path....as you take away one restriction you just move onto the next one. 430hp maybe possible but it aint just a bpu car! That's over 100bhp more than stock!

 

Or did you mean BPU+++???

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Originally posted by Alex Holdroyd

Power increases don't follow a linear path....as you take away one restriction you just move onto the next one. 430hp maybe possible but it aint just a bpu car! That's over 100bhp more than stock!

 

Or did you mean BPU+++???

 

Yep, sorry for any confusion, i meant those with FMICs etc. I dont like all the +s :conf: :)

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Guest Martin F
Originally posted by paulrenn

 

Fuel system should be simple, 6 injectors, a custom rail, and some hoses.

 

Yeah plus fuel pump, FPR, filter, briaded hose for full length of the car.

 

 

The reason a lot of parts for the Supra are expensive is because the specific parts (FMIC's, fuel rails, etc) are not sold in big volumes.

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Guest Martin F
Originally posted by Syed Shah

 

Lol, ill be looking out for a 800hp monster :eek: :)

 

 

Hey i'm only talking about the FMIC.

 

What do you think i work in IT or something ???? :D

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Originally posted by paulrenn

 

These prices are making my head spin!!!

 

What's in each of these kits? Itemise them for me and I can almost guarantee I can do similar for much less...

 

FMIC should be more like £600

Fuel system should be simple, 6 injectors, a custom rail, and some hoses.

Turbo - hope that includes manifold and downpipe?!

 

Of course, as the US cars make 200% horsepower as rest of the world, the prices are bound to be higher :p

 

The 1k was for a very big Bar and Plate design with a full connection kit...this is WRC quality stuff.

The fuel systems includes twin pumps which are quite expensive, Seimens 850cc injectors, PHR fuel rail. #6 hose, connectors and even some tools I believe.

The Turbo kit comes with downpipe, manifold, wastegate, actuator, BOV connection pipes, induction kit..oh and a fekin' large turbo!

 

Full details can be had from the powerhouseracing.com and http://www.sound-performance.com sites

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