jevansio Posted November 2, 2007 Share Posted November 2, 2007 Just wondering how hard it can be. It's an engine, you tune 2 input parameters fuel & ignition & monitor some ouput parameters, knock, AFR & EGT. I want to have a go myself & with the correct logging gear (wideband 02, EGT gauge & det cans) think I can do a decent job. I know how an engine works, have a decent map to start from, anyone think I'm over simplifying things???? Jay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustGav Posted November 2, 2007 Share Posted November 2, 2007 Wouldn't start with a supra engine to be fair... Start with something smaller (Less expensive if it goes wrong). The theory is fairly straightforward. If you are serious about doing it, why not start on something small and cheap (perhaps a megasquirt on a small ford lump) It is also a lot more than just two settings. Download the AEM Protuner software and have a look at the 3 million and 4 features.. (Admittedly not the nicest software) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juanchan Posted November 2, 2007 Share Posted November 2, 2007 JohnK mapped his own single. Not sure if he'd had any experience of mapping other cars beforehand though. Drop him a PM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jevansio Posted November 2, 2007 Author Share Posted November 2, 2007 I've got the AEM software & admittedly there are a lot of options they're basically trims on the base fuel & ignition maps. Totally understand Gav that a built Supra engine may not be the best learning platform Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted November 2, 2007 Share Posted November 2, 2007 I started out mapping my Silvia's, never blew them up, its really a matter of common sense, only make small adjustments, and double check load and rpm points before moving on to the next, do fuelling first, you may have to work through the whole map two or three times,if your tuning on the road, before moving on to timing, take time to learn how to correlate your logs with your maps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jevansio Posted November 2, 2007 Author Share Posted November 2, 2007 I started out mapping my Silvia's, never blew them up, its really a matter of common sense, only make small adjustments, and double check load and rpm points before moving on to the next, do fuelling first, you may have to work through the whole map two or three times,if your tuning on the road, before moving on to timing, take time to learn how to correlate your logs with your maps. That's exactly the sort of reasoning I'm using, small adjustments logging everything can't do any damage. TBH it's good to see people whom I think know a thing or 2 about cars not shooting me down I had the feeling I'd be jumped on by people saying things like 'whoaaa don't touch the ECU, you'll end up killing us all!!!!' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted November 2, 2007 Share Posted November 2, 2007 One thing to remember is that some of the people who charge for mapping have a tendency to do that,understandably so as its their living, also there are those that are baffled by the whole thing and think you need to be registered with Mensa, and have a degree in rocket science;) well you don't it is just common sense, and having a reasonable knowledge of how an engine works,and a sympathetic attitude to it, If you feel confident then have a go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan.G Posted November 3, 2007 Share Posted November 3, 2007 One thing to remember is that some of the people who charge for mapping have a tendency to do that Funny you should say that bud, I said to Jay tonight at first not to even play with it but then he started to sound like he had done some research (even tho some of the stuff he learn't was wrong MBT) and i said to have a go but dont go to mad. Start with working in areas which is not underload or high in rpm. One thing to remember tho dick is there is alot more to mapping a full standalone ecu than a piggyback. i have a decent map to start from No you dont Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted November 3, 2007 Share Posted November 3, 2007 Quote: One thing to remember is that some of the people who charge for mapping have a tendency to do that I should have added to that statement "which is perfectly understandable, as its their living" and i must add that its wasn't aimed at you, as you have always been very helpful:) Funny you should say that bud, I said to Jay tonight at first not to even play with it but then he started to sound like he had done some research (even tho some of the stuff he learn't was wrong MBT) and i said to have a go but dont go to mad. Start with working in areas which is not underload or high in rpm. One thing to remember tho dick is there is alot more to mapping a full standalone ecu than a piggyback Yeah i know Ryan, as i think i mentioned to you before, that i find the AEM software quite daunting:blink: although i can manage the PFC quite well. Quote: i have a decent map to start from No you dont Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted November 3, 2007 Share Posted November 3, 2007 JohnK mapped his own single. Not sure if he'd had any experience of mapping other cars beforehand though. Drop him a PM. John did map his own car, as did I, but that's only on an E-manage piggy back which is soooooooooooo much easier than than a full standalone. Even people that have experience and mapped several cars still don't get it right. As mush as I love tinkering, I wouldn't dream of attempting to map a stand-alone without someone to by my side. All MHO of course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tDR Posted November 3, 2007 Share Posted November 3, 2007 If you've got the right gear - including det cans and are sure you know what det sounds like, take a logical and methodical approach and analyse logs carefully before making adjustments (you NEED AFR logged directly into your ECU software IMO) then monitor carefully after those adjustments then there is no good reason you can't have a go yourself. Every mapper starts somewhere! It's quicker having an assistant when you're out road mapping - get them to do the driving so it needs to be someone with balls (you'll be visiting the nether regions of the RPM band in every gear to do it right) that you trust. You can tell by your TPS logs if they've been a wuss! Either that or just get them to sit in the passenger seat and start / stop logs and hold stuff whilst you drive. Cheers, Brian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan.G Posted November 3, 2007 Share Posted November 3, 2007 I should have added to that statement "which is perfectly understandable, as its their living" and i must add that its wasn't aimed at you, as you have always been very helpful I know bud just wanted to say as made me laugh as i just said to jay about 3 hours before not to bother lol Yeah i know Ryan, as i think i mentioned to you before, that i find the AEM software quite daunting although i can manage the PFC quite well The software looks daughting and takes a while to find where everything is but when you have found it they are not that bad. They would be alot easier to map and quicker if they had a active map trace built into the datalogging. The PFC software is nice as its not over worked and everything you need can be found quickly as it been designed around the users, very much like a motec and link ecu. Ryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juanchan Posted November 3, 2007 Share Posted November 3, 2007 John did map his own car, as did I, but that's only on an E-manage piggy back which is soooooooooooo much easier than than a full standalone. Even people that have experience and mapped several cars still don't get it right. As mush as I love tinkering, I wouldn't dream of attempting to map a stand-alone without someone to by my side. All MHO of course That would make sense having read some more on mapping. I've never really asked John much about his mapping other than that he did it himself. It still sounds like something I presonally wouldn't try, as I'd be guaranteed to break something expensive! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jevansio Posted November 3, 2007 Author Share Posted November 3, 2007 Well I guess I'll either be posting 'Just blew my engine' or 'My car feels much better' in the near future. I won't be doing it totally on my own, will have the assistance of the guys from Motoscope & most likely Michel for road mapping. My base map may well not be the best it could be, but the car does run well so it's prolly easier to tune that rather than starting from scratch myself. I agree with Ryan in that I should work in the easier areas first. TBH I'm starting off getting cold start, hot start, idle & tip in (accel fuel) perfect before progressing to the off boost cruise areas, then progressing up the boost 1 stage at a time. Will get the 02 feedback turned off & enabled only on idle & cruise. I also agree with Ryan on having smooth maps. Ryan, this MBT question lol , so what does it stand for??? I found a couple of explainations, "Minimum Best Timing", "Minimum Timing for Best Torque", "Maximum Brake Torque Timing", "Minimal Advance for Best Torque". To me they all mean the same, the minimum amount of timing advance needed to achive the maximum torque, advancing more than that loses torque. Have I got this wrong, or were we splitting hairs over what the acronym MBT stood for? I guess one of my first questions will be is my AEM O2 setup be adequate for mapping, I have an Innovate O2 setup on the way. Should I use the Innovate for mapping? I actually find the AEM software extremely obvious, this is what's making me think there must be more to this than meets the eye. Yes there are a lot of options, but each option / table is fully documented & a lot of tables are just trims on the main fuel map for different conditions (air temp, coolant temp etc). We'll prolly soon find out when I start a thread 'Damn, just blew my engine' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan.G Posted November 3, 2007 Share Posted November 3, 2007 Maximum break torque (MBT) Go on google and research it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan.G Posted November 3, 2007 Share Posted November 3, 2007 I guess one of my first questions will be is my AEM O2 setup be adequate for mapping, I have an Innovate O2 setup on the way. Should I use the Innovate for mapping? For the full power stuff i would recommend going to motorscope and hiring the dyno for hour then its in a controlled environment and you can use their wideband as well to confirm A/F are good Ryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suprafan72 Posted November 3, 2007 Share Posted November 3, 2007 I two am very extremeley interested in this and have studied the Link G3 Software and my map in detail.. Ryan G has kindly started giving me tips in what means what and he talked me through how to sort out my cold start on the phone.... I'd be extremeley interested in going on some sort of course on this.... Just even to learn the basic priniciples of mapping Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jevansio Posted November 3, 2007 Author Share Posted November 3, 2007 Will def be hiring MSs dyno, already spoke with Richard about it. Maximum brake torque, was my understanding of what it meant correct??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan.G Posted November 3, 2007 Share Posted November 3, 2007 I two am very extremeley interested in this and have studied the Link G3 Software and my map in detail.. Ryan G has kindly started giving me tips in what means what and he talked me through how to sort out my cold start on the phone.... I'd be extremeley interested in going on some sort of course on this.... Just even to learn the basic priniciples of mapping You did a great job with this mate In case people wonder why this was not done before i only had a short amount of time to get the link running good ready for mapping at the dyno tomorrow and the idle was just abit low on cold. Alot of people has asked me to spend some time teaching them the basics etc and thinking of hiring the dyno soon to do this if people are interested to show them what afr and timing settings effect on the car Ryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted November 3, 2007 Share Posted November 3, 2007 I'd be interested Ryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoFuture Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 i used to map smart cars, and the roadster from 80 bhp to 120 tops, and there was 87 parameters to tuneto get it right, and thats on 3 cyl timings, i wouldnt event attempt a supra engine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SupraT61 Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 Iv been looking into mappig my own e-manage for a while, im quite confident I could adjust the fuel map OK but I dont understand the timing and ignition Iv read the intructions inside out and every scrap of infomation I can get but its not enough. So decided to pay a pro now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 What "pro" are you using to map the emanage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n boost Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 I mapped my own emanage on my single supra and did quite well me thinks 580 BHP and 500lb + ft @ 1.35 bar on a hks to4r and stock engine. I was a bit nervous at first as it was my first supra engine and was piggybanking a SARD ecu so was unsure if i would have problems. Piggybanks are not to difficult as u have a base to start from but on a single the ignition maps are totally different so take time. I have mapped a few of my previous cars (S14a, evo, pulsar etc) and also a few local cars using emanage as no one around brum seems to be dealing with emanage's and there is a quick buck to be made. Get familiar with the software first and then go mapping as u waste a lot of time looking for icons etc if u dont know where they are. I have only used the emanage as i am familiar with it and does me for my road cars but would think twice about a standalone ecu as they take more time/experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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