Tricky-Ricky Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Thought got enough time to fit my larger injectors this morning, so take off the plenum and ancillaries, fit new injectors only to find that they are shorter than the std ones, so the top buffers wont take up the slack:( quick bit of rummaging around in my workshop reveals a nice box of Farnnels finest grommets, and find six that will do the job perfectly:)so they are now in, not started the car yet as i have to tweak the EMU, but there is no reason they will not be OK as i have used them in high heat situations before, Another slightly worrying thing was the little puddles of oil in the inlet runners, i suspect its from the breather as all i have been doing lately is running around town off boost so its going to suck oil vapour through, think I'll re configure the breather to a catch tank, also discovered that my ICV has the little plastic spacer missing:( which is my fault as it must have drooped out when i was refitting the polished plenum, but the idle has been fine? anyway i found a temporary fix after another rummage, found an old Triumph Bonneville bottom push rod tube ring, and it fits fine, so i can still bodge with the best of them;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean1933 Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Sounds like you would be perfect for scrapheap challenge Dick! What injectors you fitted? Going single or just want that extra legroom for the hybrids? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted October 31, 2007 Author Share Posted October 31, 2007 Only 540CC mate, just for extra headroom, thought i would get around to a few little jobs while I'm waiting to get into the spray shop, as their choca at the moment, so i will have to wait a week or two, rear view camera next;) You finished yours yet?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobSheffield Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 What brand of injectors were they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted October 31, 2007 Author Share Posted October 31, 2007 Denso! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobSheffield Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Denso 540s? From what car? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Thought got enough time to fit my larger injectors this morning, so take off the plenum and ancillaries, fit new injectors only to find that they are shorter than the std ones, so the top buffers wont take up the slack:( If that's stock-rail-based side feed injectors and you are talking about the o-rings that got between the top of the injector and the three metal plates then you are OK as they are only vibration buffers Another slightly worrying thing was the little puddles of oil in the inlet runners, That thar oil is as normal as a normal thing -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted October 31, 2007 Author Share Posted October 31, 2007 They where from Arans (Fish) car before he went big twins, Denso high impedance 540CC had then cleaned and flow tested by Chris Wilson for the doubters:p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted October 31, 2007 Author Share Posted October 31, 2007 If that's stock-rail-based side feed injectors and you are talking about the o-rings that got between the top of the injector and the three metal plates then you are OK as they are only vibration buffers Yeah i know, i do know what I'm doing! That thar oil is as normal as a normal thing -Ian Surprisingly i have never seen any oil sitting in the runners before when i have had the plenum off, just goes to show just how much oil gets sucked into it during off boost running, thats why i shall be running it to a catch tank in future;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 yeah, buuuuut what's the problem with having a bit of breather oil being burnt while you are off boost? It's designed to run like that. And I've yet to meet anyone with a shiny shiny catch can that actually has to ever empty it, ever -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted October 31, 2007 Author Share Posted October 31, 2007 I am just thinking of the amount of oil that gets sucked in the first time you hit full boost, cant be good, in that volume it is bound to lower fuel octane and probably cause det, On another note, you may have come across this before, i have with another car, but you may have a better fix;) just been out and changed the injector size in the EMU and with the correct size inputed it runs very rich, now in order to get it to idle at around 14.7 i ended up increasing the injector size up to 590cc lag increase will only make it worse, don't know if dropping the size of the original injectors would be better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean1933 Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Only 540CC mate, just for extra headroom, thought i would get around to a few little jobs while I'm waiting to get into the spray shop, as their choca at the moment, so i will have to wait a week or two, rear view camera next;) You finished yours yet?? Squeezing everything you can from them i see Nope mines not finished yet mate, long way off. Got the exhaust side (tubby, mani, etc) sorted a few weeks back...but now i might take a different route and change it, im still deciding. Currently got the whole intake side off to change the injectors/FPR/etc. Im in the process of cleaning the plenum/runners/rail so they look new again. Once the engines sorted its going in the sprayshop for a full spray which will probably be around January i hope. Still cant decide on the colour though, clio cup blue (like my last supra but a little darker) or dark gunmetal...hmmmm Anyway, Hijack over! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan.G Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 I am just thinking of the amount of oil that gets sucked in the first time you hit full boost, cant be good, in that volume it is bound to lower fuel octane and probably cause det, People always laugh when i say that they are worth having due to the oil vapour lowering the octane level in the mixture Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soonto_HAS_soop Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 yeah, buuuuut what's the problem with having a bit of breather oil being burnt while you are off boost? It's designed to run like that. And I've yet to meet anyone with a shiny shiny catch can that actually has to ever empty it, ever -Ian 6 Months mine was on for, when I checked it, it was as clean as the day I put it on there, so I removed it as it was pointless.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLicense Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 I'm considering fitting one because I get a lot of oil coming through the PCV. Piston rings anyone??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan.G Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 I'm considering fitting one because I get a lot of oil coming through the PCV. Piston rings anyone??? Mr Turner, Would have thought he didn't know what det cans were Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted October 31, 2007 Author Share Posted October 31, 2007 Any comments on the injector sizing bodge Ryan? other than "i don't map piggybacks":p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan.G Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 i don't map piggybacks!! Speak to ian mate as dont know the emu software at all Sorry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suprafan72 Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 I'm considering fitting one because I get a lot of oil coming through the PCV. Piston rings anyone??? Problems Tony? Are you joining me on Sunday? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 I don't use the injector correction function, Mr Tricky I consider it more trouble than it's worth when mapping. I think you are starting to find out why -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted November 1, 2007 Author Share Posted November 1, 2007 I know its a roughish setting as i have used it before, but it basically does just the same as tweaking the airflow map, you still end up having to compensate for the duty cycle and timing that gets added or pulled, oh well I'll just keep adjusting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 But if you start without it, you know where you are, instead of guessing what it's done. You've added 25% more fuel capacity...so you start by knocking off 25%... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean1933 Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 Took the words right out of my mouth alex. Just reduce all the current settings by whatever the % increase in injector size. Then tweak as requiried Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 All the global injector adjustment does is work out the percentage size bigger they are and drop the airflow signal that much. It's not magic. So 440 to 540 = 22% bigger. However, percentages being the bugger they are it needs to work the other way around and figure out 440 is 19% smaller than 540. So it'll drop the airflow signal by 19% at all times. Now this is all well and good but it is in fact problematic in two areas. 1) 19% less airflow signal in no way means you deliver 19% less fuel. 2) Your maps and datalogs will all show a 0% adjustment. 2) is then compounded by any mapping you do. If you put -20% airflow at say full throttle 6000rpm, how much are you scaling the airflow signal down by...? is it: a) -20% b) -35% c) -39% And for bonus points what do you think the datalog says you are scaling it by? -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxcat Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 Why not to adjust only INJ map for the start, if only injectors have been changed... ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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