Help needed building a new gaming PC

[Homer]

I used to build high end PC systems every week, but after a few years away from it I've really lost touch with the specifications on modern game systems. Hopefully some of you can help

 

I'm looking for a DX10 capable system that will have at least an 18-24 month lifespan. The spec below is what I think should be a higher end build (just put together after a couple of hours on the net):

 

Motherboard: Gigabyte Socket 775; G33 chipset; DDR2 RAm, 1333mhz FSB, PC2 RAM up to 8500

 

Processor: Intel Core 2 Duo 6750; 2.66mhz; 1333mhx FSB

 

Memory: OCX 2x2GB PC2-6400 Gold (4GB total)

 

Graphics: XFX 8800GTS DDR3 640MB "XXX" series (extremely overclocked GC)

 

PSU: OCX 600 Watt GameXStream

 

Does anyone see a problem with the above system?

 

Some questions:

 

The GFX card is £280 so I'm a bit concerned paying that amount. Is it worth going for the 320MB version thats £80 less instead?

 

Is the CPU the optimum choice for the £110~ price range? The intel CPU naming conventions are very confusing so I'm not sure this is the fastest version for the price range. Is one with a lower FSB but higher clock speed a better choice?

[Inferno]

I would say get some DDR3 ram - whilst the newer speeds have not proven to be beneficial just yet, it will be more future proof (which is what you want in this case) and easier to overclock to match future motherboard/CPU FSB's (this way you can just upgrade your mobo and chip in the future if you want and it will cost you a helluvalot less than replacing everything).

 

However if you are sure you want 4GB, then DDR3 may be a bit costly for this.

 

Mobo: Depending on what you want, make sure it has a couple of spare PCI/PCI-E slots, easy to access SATA ports, built in GigabitEthernet and 7 channel sound (unless you are picky about sound in which case you would be buying a pro PCI sound card).

 

Processor is a good choice.

 

The graphics card is another area where the 640mb versions have not proved themselves yet. Certainly at this stage I would go for the 320mb version as there is just no difference in performance. Alternatively, the Radeon HD X2900XT's perform very well too.

 

PSU sounds good, you have a power hungry beast there so 600W should do nicely.

[Homer]

Many thanks Inferno, very helpful

 

The reason I've not chosen a DDR3 capable board is due to the huge price of DDR3 ram; even for 2GB it's a couple of hundred pound more than fast DDR2. If there's a massive performance increase to be had from DDR3, then I'm sold, but have not seen any stats as yet. Point taken regarding upgrades though, however I expect the speed rating to quickly become obsolete once DDR3 becomes the norm.

 

The Mobo has a PCI-Ex16 slot, Gbit lan and 7.1 sound so I think is okay, but as it's a more budget choice was more concerned about the chipset.

 

Not sure about the HD X2900 GPU, in the hardware guides they seem to fall far below earlier models in almost all areas. They are being slated in pretty much all 'recomended' press I read. The mid-high spec 8800GT cards seem to perform much better

[Inferno]

I agree with the DDR3... the sticks are definitely in the too-high price range as they are still new

 

As for the GPU, the HD2900XT when first released was rubbished, but since the drivers were re-written, it is basically on par with the 8800GTS (and in some cases, matches the 8800 GTX performance). But regardless of which one you choose, they will both perform pretty damn well.

 

Here is a good writeup and chart:

 

http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/10/01/the_best_gaming_graphics_cards_for_the_money/

http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/10/09/directx_10_shootout/

http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics_2007.html

 

All are from the same site, but I have found that their numbers are pretty spot on (after comparing with my own hardware) and reviews quite unbiased.

[Masenko]

Good idea to go quad core, especially if you want to run games like Crysis...dual SLI graphics?

[Gamer]

Personally, I would get a 2.4ghz GO stepping Quad core. Also, again this is just a personal choice, I would ditch the Gigabyte for an Asus or Abit. Keep in mind that I am looking at this from an overclockers perspective.

2GB ram would be more compliant assuming that you will be using Vista 32bit. Unfortunately, users of the 32-bit flavors of Vista have to run through some hoops to see all of the new RAM they've upgraded to. Even then, they may not see all of the RAM available because of various hardware issues. More on that can be found here: http://www.ocmodshop.com/ocmodshop.aspx?a=989

[Inferno]

I would go with a faster clocked dual core rather than a quad core - until the majority of games support multi-threading, you really won't see much benefit from quad cores (although they do kick ass for general multi-threaded windows applications such as winrar, mp3/divx encoding etc). Most games prefer faster clock speeds as opposed to more cores.

[Gamer]

This is where the overclocking comes in handy. The 2.4 Quad (and the dual core for that matter) can be easily overclocked to 3ghz or better depending on your cooling and skills.

 

I currently run a 2.4Ghz Dual core at 3.5Ghz 24/7 with water cooling and can even go as high as 3.9Ghz for benchmarks and such. This is on a 975x chip set. If I use an X38 chip set mobo I would even be able to go a bit higher.

 

Considering that he wants the system to last for up to 2 years, I would think that there would be many more applications and/or games taking advantage of multithreading within that time frame.

[Ric]

Go for the 8800 GTX you can get the lowest version 768mb which is still quicker than the one you're looking at for around 290inc VAT & its still a direct x 10 capable card if you go for that card tho, its more than likely the PSU will need a little more power.

 

As Joe mentioned also, the q6600 quad core maybe a better choice

[michael]

A new 8800GT comes out next week - apparently faster and cheaper than the 8800GTS, also uses less power and runs cooler *but* then they are bringing out a new 8800GTS with more "super shaders" or something like that.

 

As with all PC upgrades it might be best to wait, the problem is when you do this something else gets cheaper / better and you end up waiting forever like I am

 

 

Edit: The newer GT is the "G92 GT" GPU, Revision A2 apparently - only takes up a single slot due to the smaller cooling fan.

 

Great review here apparently

 

http://topic.expreview.com/2007-10-23/1193114539d6255.html

 

Comes out just below the GTX anyway.

[MrHanky]

I am by no means an expert but did spend a bit of time looking at components before building my gaming PC. In the end I went for this motherboard so that I can use DDR2 now and then move onto DDR3 as it gets cheaper. http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MB-086-GI&groupid=701&catid=5&subcat=913

 

Also went for the 2900XT card instead of the 880GTX (mainly to save some money) and cannot fault it so far.

 

Mark

[Angarak]

As an example of a future game supporting multi-cores, heres the specs for Crysis:

 

Minimum System Requirements

OS – Windows XP or Windows Vista

Processor – 2.8 GHz or faster (XP) or 3.2 GHz or faster* (Vista)

Memory – 1.0 GB RAM (XP) or 1.5 GB RAM (Vista)

Video Card –256 MB**

Hard Drive – 12GB

Sound Card – DirectX 9.0c compatible

 

* Supported Processors: Intel Pentium 4 2.8 GHz (3.2 GHz for Vista) or faster, Intel Core 2.0 GHz (2.2 GHz for Vista) or faster, AMD Athlon 2800+ (3200+ for Vista) or faster.

 

** Supported chipsets: NVIDIA GeForce 6800 GT or greater; ATI Radeon 9800 Pro (Radeon X800 Pro for Vista) or greater. Laptop versions of these chipsets may work but are not supported. Integrated chipsets are not supported. Updates to your video and sound card drivers may be required.

 

Recommended System Requirements

OS – Windows XP / Vista

Processor – Intel Core 2 DUO @ 2.2GHz or AMD Athlon 64 X2 4400+

Memory – 2.0 GB RAM

GPU – NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GTS/640 or similar

 

The Crysis beta runs fine (with HIGH settings) on: Intel C2D E6750 (2.66Ghz - GO stepping), 2GB DDR2 6400, Radeon HD2900XT.

 

As mentioned, the Radeon 2900XT performs better now thanks to better optimised drivers. It wasnt intended to match the high-spec NVidia card. I believe NVidia arent far from launching their new range of cards in the near future, unless there is a game you want to play now, it may be worth holding off on forking out on an expensive graphics card and wait for their release.

 

Whilst Crysis will support Quad Core CPU's, in my opinion a DuoCore CPU would be fine for now, as long as your mobo supports quad cores you can always upgrade to one in the future when more software makes use of it.

 

Stay on XP as long as you can - Vista performance on DX9 games is worse than XP. Only games supporting DX10 (like Crysis) will 'shine' on Vista (the OS itself consumes more resources than XP OS).

[kieren1234]

How much would it cost to build a pc to a pretty good spec, i would want it to run Counter strike source, thats all really and obviously internet and word documents etc. I really want a good pc :(

[Gamer]

Food for thought:

 

 

The 2.4Ghz GO stepping Quad core Q6600 (OEM version) is only £11 more expensive than the 2.4Ghz Dual core E6600 chip.

 

 

As listed on overclockers.co.uk for comparison, you can find it for slightly cheaper elsewhere.

[DamanC]

Im with Joe here, get the Q6600. 2GB ram will do you, and if you can get a mobo that supports ddr2 memory as well as ddr3.

 

At a later date you can upgrade to 4gb should you see the need. After your 2 years ddr3 memory will have come down in price so you can upgrade to that and then just drop in a newer processor and GPU and away you go for another 2 years

 

I just had a client by a PC that they wanted to use for a while. 1 QX6850 Quad-Core later he was happy. Shame he wanted a shit case, I had to turn everything back to stock when i put it in

[colsoop]

I would get a decent case too (unless you already have one)

Also i wouldn't buy an already overclocked card they tend to come at a premium when you could buy the non overclocked model and get the same overclocking potential by doing it yourself.

[Homer]

Thanks guys for all the feedback, very helpful

 

So, do we all agree:

- 4gb is unecessary, better to go for 2gb now

- Hold on for a bit before buying a graphics card

- Go for a Asus/Abit board that can handle DDR2 and 3

- 600w power supply is capable

 

I was also thinking that as the 2gb RAM is much cheaper I can go for higher speed PC2-8500

 

I'm a bit confused about the processor. The Q6600 has a lower FSB (1033 va 1333 for the E7650), so wouldn't the day-to-day performance of the processor be slower? It's also a lot more expensive.

[DamanC]

Im going to throw another spanner in the works.

 

Dont limit yourself to just an abit/asus mobo, I have had good gigabyte and DFI mobos in the past. I know there is a decent gigabyte that supports DDR2 and DDR2 memory.

 

Yup, go for 8500 RAM, 600W is upto the job. If you wait around for the GFX card you will be always waiting around......like me!

[Angarak]

Personally, unless your going to overclock your CPU I wouldnt bother with 8500 RAM, and go with DDR2 6400 with low latency.

[Steviekid]

Food for thought:

 

 

The 2.4Ghz GO stepping Quad core Q6600 (OEM version) is only £11 more expensive than the 2.4Ghz Dual core E6600 chip.

 

I bought an E6600 about two weeks before the price of the Q6600 dropped and am still f**ked off about it!!!

[supra steveo]

anyone want to do a write up after building one of these please:)

[Angarak]

anyone want to do a write up after building one of these please:)

 

I can confirm that the following spec gets 11513 3DMark06 points (system is NOT overclocked in anyway):

 

:: WinXP SP2 (32 bit)

:: Asus P5KC motherboard

:: Intel Core2Duo E6750 cpu (1333Mhz)

:: 2GB Crucial Ballistix Tracer PC2-8500 DDR2 (4-4-4-12 @ 400Mhz)

:: Sapphire Radeon HD 2900XT (512mb DDR3) PCI-e

:: Creative SoundBlaster X-Fi GamerXtreme

:: 250GB Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 SATA-II Drive

:: OCZ 600W SilentXtreme PSU

 

....not that SOUND is important in 3DMark06

 

11513 3DMarks

 

SM2.0 Score: 5039

- Return to Proxycon: 40.553fps

- Firefly Forest: 43.425fps

 

HDR/SM3.0 Score: 5961

- Canyon Flight: 59.085fps

- Deep Freeze: 60.129fps

 

CPU Score: 2396

- CPU 1 > Red Valley: 0.757fps

- CPU 2 > Red Valley: 1.213fps

[Homer]

Angarak, thats very similar to the specs people seem to be recommending. Here's what I have planned after the advice here:

 

Motherboard:

Asustek S775 Intel P35 ATX GLAN (DDR2 & 3 capable)

http://www.dabs.com/productview.aspx?Quicklinx=4QNW

 

CPU:

Intel Core 2 Duo E6750 S775 2.66ghz 4mb Cache 1333FSB

http://www.dabs.com/productview.aspx?Quicklinx=4MMC

 

Memory:

Crucial 2GBKIT (1GBx2) BALLISTIX 240PIN DDR2 PC2-8500

http://www.dabs.com/productview.aspx?Quicklinx=4QDZ

 

Power:

OCZ Technology 600W Active PFC GameXStream

http://www.dabs.com/productview.aspx?Quicklinx=4L04

 

Will wait a month or so to see what happens to GFX prices, so for now will continue with an XFX 7600GTX 256mb XXX series (very overclocked, but stable version)

 

The 8500 memory is only slightly more expensive than the 6400, so is surely worth it for the extra bandwidth?

[DamanC]

Looks good mate, and after pushing my current rig off the desk ill be ordering that cpu and mobo and probably the same ram

 

EDIT: Ram out of stock

[Angarak]

Homer,

 

The motherboard you list is the P5KC like mine. It is a great motherboard, however there is a stability issue running 8500 RAM (even though its meant to support it). Im waiting for a BIOS fix to remedy this (Im currently using Bios 0701).

 

P5KC Support Forums:

:: http://vip.asus.com/forum/topic.aspx?board_id=1&model=P5KC&SLanguage=en-us

 

In the meantime I have 'de-clocked' my Crucial 8500 Ram so its running a 400Mhz (4-4-4-12 timings) instead of 533mhz (5-5-5-15 timing).

 

I believe this is the equivalent to DDR2 6400 speed.

 

When the NVidia G92 cards comes out in November, the price of the current 8800 series will drop....so a bargain should be found.

 

The OCZ PSU's are also great, 600W should be plenty as long as your not looking to run a dual-gfx-card setup.

 

If you intend to overclock the CPU, dump the stock fan that comes with the Intel CPU and go for a Zalman or something similar.

 

Once the support for 8500 is sorted, the extra bandwidth should improve performance. The E6750 CPU overclocks well too, so if your into overclocking your components, you *may* be able to achieve a FSB-DRAM Ratio of 1:1 by setting the RAM to 5-5-5-15@533Mhz and overclock the CPU BUS to 533Mhz (up from 333Mhz)...and setting the Multiplier to 6 (lowest you can go on this mobo) - giving you a Core Speed of around 3200Mhz (not sure what voltage you'll have to set though!)....but you'd need some bloody good cooling

 

Personally, since I use my computer for work and play (dual boot) I don't overclock my components. At the current settings, there is no game I can't play with HIGH settings and great FPS. Crysis Beta runs great @ high settings (obviously the graphics card plays an important role in this).

 

One more thing, if you intend to use Vista as your OS, I'd aim for 4GB of RAM if your wallet will allow it.

 

Regards

Simon