Chris Wilson Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 Minorities need to stand on their own merit, not be artificially boosted by favouritism. By seeking said favouritism the minorities curry no favour with the majorities, the reverse in fact. Every time I see this "positive discrimination" in action it rankles, in some it would expand any racist tendencies they already have. Less liberal thinkers might assume some play this minorities game for their own ends... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juanchan Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 I'd be beating the path to a new job, what a sad state of affairs More PC gone crazy! I work for GE, so I'm probably gonna hang on for a while, get of this here "experience" behind me before moving on! Maybe so but that is not Positive Discrimination. The whole business of calling coppers "PolicePeople" isn't anything to do with Positive Discrimination. Agreed. I think it's my shoddy english letting me down! I was more trying to point out that in the PC-mad world of today, simple harmless terms are deemed unacceptable by some who like to impose their ideals on others. Yet the same PC people go out of their way to highlight that the copper in question was a black guy. Does that in some way make a white copper incapable of performing the same task? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogmaw Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 OK let me explain why there can be specific groups for the minority (in this case black policemen) but not the majority. It's pretty simple really, and the reasoning applies to all minority groups. If you're a black policeman, you're in the minority. Everywhere you look there are white policemen, in the canteen, on the street, wherever. You feel that you're on you own, and that everyone is white apart from you. Then you meet another black policeman, and another. So you form a group, so that you can share experiences that only black policeman could experience, racism for example, so that you can learn from each other and make life as a black policeman more positive and productive. You can also share what you learn with your white colleagues, but there is no need for them to join your group, because can never experience themselves what it is like to actually be a black policeman. There is no point in the black policemen joining a white group, or the white group having their own club, because in being policemen the black police are part of that group already. What is it that white police would gain by having a white group and excluding blacks from it? Nothing! But the opposite is true, because for the majority there is a lot to learn from minority groups. Bit of a long one there, hope it makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogmaw Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Minorities need to stand on their own merit, not be artificially boosted by favouritism. By seeking said favouritism the minorities curry no favour with the majorities, the reverse in fact. Every time I see this "positive discrimination" in action it rankles, in some it would expand any racist tendencies they already have. Less liberal thinkers might assume some play this minorities game for their own ends... Nobody said minorities should be artificially boosted by favouritism. They should have a chance to voice their opinions and express themselves though, and if that means giving black policemen a group of their own as a platform to voice their concerns so be it. As Supra drivers, we all drive a car that is a specialist choice by a minority of people. We don't ask for any favours from anyone, but we would fight tooth and nail for our right to have this club to represent us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Gerald, though I see logic in some of your posts I do not see it in all. Out of interest, do you belong to a "minority colour/background" group? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogmaw Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Hi Homer no I'm a whitey like most people on here, but for some reason I have always had a thing about sticking up for minorities, not just race stuff but pretty much everything, eg kids who were bullied at school, obscure music (my job), even supras. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopite Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 I think Gerald's talking a lot of sense personally Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Hi Homer no I'm a whitey like most people on here, but for some reason I have always had a thing about sticking up for minorities, not just race stuff but pretty much everything, eg kids who were bullied at school, obscure music (my job), even supras. I'm surprised to be honest, but fully respect and accept your 'intermediate' view. In an idealist world we should all view society through your eyes. That is not the reality however; and it never will be. If we are to have 'black' policeman’s groups, we should also have 'white' policeman’s groups; this is surely equality in the 21st century eh? Who will be the first to start a black (or white) "Supra owners" club? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogmaw Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 In an idealist world we should all view society through your eyes. That is not the reality however; and it never will be. Won't stop me trying And as for equality, did you ever read Animal Farm? The phrase "All animals are created equal, but some are more equal than others" might have some relevance here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogmaw Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 OK I just got out of bed to write this cos I couldn't sleep over it. How sad that is, I know. Supposing there were 100 people, and they all liked talking about cars. Of these people, 95 of them drove Fords. The other 5 drove Supras. Everyone liked chatting about cars in general, but despite the Ford drivers liking Supras, they didn't know much about them. The Supra drivers knew all about Fords, but couldn't talk much to the Ford drivers about them, so they made their own Supra group. The Supra group chatted amongst themselves about cars in general, as well as Supras. The Ford drivers were happy to listen to the guys in the Supra group talk about Supras, because despite not being Supra enthusiasts, they were nevertheless interested in all cars, and they respected the knowledge of the Supra group. Of course they could never join the group, because they were Ford drivers. But the members of the Supra group still maintained contact with the Ford drivers, because of the shared enthusiasm for all cars. And they liked the fact that they had specialist knowledge of the Supra, which they could share with people who were interested. I hope that analogy works. Now for some kip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyP Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 OK I just got out of bed to write this cos I couldn't sleep over it. How sad that is, I know. Supposing there were 100 people, and they all liked talking about cars. Of these people, 95 of them drove Fords. The other 5 drove Supras. Everyone liked chatting about cars in general, but despite the Ford drivers liking Supras, they didn't know much about them. The Supra drivers knew all about Fords, but couldn't talk much to the Ford drivers about them, so they made their own Supra group. The Supra group chatted amongst themselves about cars in general, as well as Supras. The Ford drivers were happy to listen to the guys in the Supra group talk about Supras, because despite not being Supra enthusiasts, they were nevertheless interested in all cars, and they respected the knowledge of the Supra group. Of course they could never join the group, because they were Ford drivers. But the members of the Supra group still maintained contact with the Ford drivers, because of the shared enthusiasm for all cars. And they liked the fact that they had specialist knowledge of the Supra, which they could share with people who were interested. I hope that analogy works. Now for some kip. Nice analogy. I do agree with most of the things that you say. I also agree that any group in our very diverse society should be able to belong to a group with members of the same ethnicity, sexuality, gender, religion or whatever. However, what I do have a problem with is that white people are singled out as the only section of society that cannot have an exclusively white group. As I have said before I don't have any need nor interest in joining such a group, however, I should have the freedom to do so if I wish. The same as everyone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim_supra Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 In the news today regarding positive discrimination; http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7060572.stm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbourner Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 What Tony said. Hence the MOBO mention - if we had the MOWOs they would be immediately shunned for being racist, same for any white only group that was set up, it'd start riots and all sorts as the 'minorities' got angry about us all hating them with our racist views. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlotte Posted October 25, 2007 Author Share Posted October 25, 2007 What Tony said. Hence the MOBO mention - if we had the MOWOs they would be immediately shunned for being racist, same for any white only group that was set up, it'd start riots and all sorts as the 'minorities' got angry about us all hating them with our racist views. I think that's a very poor example. 'Music of black origin' doesn't mean lets group a load of black people together. It's about the style of music. If you actually watched the awards you'd realise that the majority of people that win one are white - Amy Winehouse for example. She takes soul/jazz into the mainstream. Do some music history lessons brother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoboblio Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 If you actually watched the awards you'd realise that the majority of people that win one are white The MOBO / MOWO has been mentioned on here several times before, and every time people point that out.... doesn't seem to do any good though . It doesn't sink into some people's minds that there's a difference between music of black origin and music by black people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerous brain Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Positive discrimination is discrimination. The best person for a job is the best person for the job whether black or white, male or female, gay or straight etc Ah but when does the right person for the job ever get the job? Look how many complete bufoons seem to get promoted whilst the quiet hard workers get left behind. Life is unfortunately about politics be that at a small group level or internationally. And as long as there are differing opinions on things and different groups of people with different backgrounds etc then there will be divides. These divides generate the negative feelings associated with racism etc. Life is political and you have two choices, live life or don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Class One Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Positive discrimination is discrimination. The best person for a job is the best person for the job whether black or white, male or female, gay or straight etc Ah but when does the right person for the job ever get the job? Look how many complete bufoons seem to get promoted whilst the quiet hard workers get left behind. The Police service is full of them. "Those who can do, do, those who can't, teach. Those who can't do or teach, rule." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Can we make this a sticky? It'd be handy come JAE time for noting down which racist numpties to avoid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbleapple Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Minorities need to stand on their own merit, not be artificially boosted by favouritism. By seeking said favouritism the minorities curry no favour with the majorities, the reverse in fact. Every time I see this "positive discrimination" in action it rankles, in some it would expand any racist tendencies they already have. Less liberal thinkers might assume some play this minorities game for their own ends... Agree 100% As a white person living in Bradford, I am of the opinion that some of the most racist people I know are Asians in the Manningham Lane area. It is not safe to walk in that area if you are white. Can I join a group since I am a minority in my area? - the moment I did I would be classed as racist. Can I have positive discrimination in my favour? - no because I am white. I know many of the people in my area feel the same and Chris hits it on the head... He also explains why the BNP are so popular in my area and why race riots occurred a few years ago. Racism has been used for centuries to kill other people, it would be nice to see it removed totally for society. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.