M4RK RZ Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 what a load of toss - from a white blokes point of view Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 At work we're encouraged to not use titles such as "chairman" which imply that the person in that role can only be male. I'd be beating the path to a new job, what a sad state of affairs More PC gone crazy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogmaw Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 what a load of toss - from a white blokes point of view I'm white and I don't think it's a load of toss. Perhaps you should think again exactly what point of view you're trying to present. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyP Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Positive discrimination is discrimination. The best person for a job is the best person for the job whether black or white, male or female, gay or straight etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Positive discrimination is discrimination. The best person for a job is the best person for the job whether black or white, male or female, gay or straight etc Quite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogmaw Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Yes but there is nothing wrong with pointing out to society that there are black police officers and high ranking ones at that. It's a race relations exercise, that's all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyP Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Yes but there is nothing wrong with pointing out to society that there are black police officers and high ranking ones at that. It's a race relations exercise, that's all There is something VERY VERY wrong with pointing out that there are black police officers. The very act of singling them out suggests that that they are inferior and lucky to be in the position that they are in. Imo Positive discrimination is racist. Harking back to Tbourner's post if the MOWO's did exit there would be an outcry of racism. BBC radio 6 is a black music station. How racist is that? In the past yes there has been an appalling history of racism against black people but that doesn't mean that the tables should be turned now. What is needed is a level playing field for all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogmaw Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 There is something VERY VERY wrong with pointing out that there are black police officers. The very act of singling them out suggests that that they are inferior and lucky to be in the position that they are in. Eh? How did you work that out? By pointing out that we have black police officers shows to ALL people that the police are not a bunch of racist white bullies who pick on black people, because it shows that we have members of the police that are black! If we did have an all-white police force, what message to black people does that put out? Think about it. Imo Positive discrimination is racist. Harking back to Tbourner's post if the MOWO's did exit there would be an outcry of racism. BBC radio 6 is a black music station. How racist is that? In the past yes there has been an appalling history of racism against black people but that doesn't mean that the tables should be turned now. What is needed is a level playing field for all. Yes and by being positive MAKES a level playing field. Minorities, especially young black kids, need role models to aspire to. Not just footballers and rappers, but principle members of our society, and by that I mean people like doctors, lawyers, teachers, MPs - and police. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbleapple Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Yes but there is nothing wrong with pointing out to society that there are black police officers and high ranking ones at that. It's a race relations exercise, that's all How is it a race relations exercise...imo it does more damage than good by raising the possibility of racism in the police. - I mean look at the comments here... What pisses me off most is the fact that the minorities claim they are picked on by the Police, but when the statistics are compared, it is the minorities who are committing the crimes so of course they get more attention. Stop shooting each other and the world would be a better place! As for white policemen, the reason they can't have a group of their own is because the minorities would claim that it is racist.... how can you have a white group and be accused of being racist and a black group that isnt? - PC has gone mad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbleapple Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Yes and by being positive MAKES a level playing field. Minorities, especially young black kids, need role models to aspire to. Not just footballers and rappers, but principle members of our society, and by that I mean people like doctors, lawyers, teachers, MPs - and police. ROFL I understand your point, but how is he a role model if he is in his position simply because he is black? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyP Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Giving a black person an advantage over a white person does not create a level playing field. You may think of it as pay back but two wrongs don't make a right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogmaw Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 ROFL I understand your point, but how is he a role model if he is in his position simply because he is black? He is not there JUST because he is black, more to the point it's pointing out to people that there ARE black policemen, just as there are other successful black people in our society. If you talk to a young black teenager on some rough estate, and show him a black policeman, then you show him that police aren't all white and racist. Then he will have more faith in the police and justice system. If he thinks ALL police are white, then he will lose all hope, and you have a problem teenager on your hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogmaw Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Giving a black person an advantage over a white person does not create a level playing field. You may think of it as pay back but two wrongs don't make a right. I never said give a black person an advantage over a white. Where did I say that? I am saying make their achievements more visible and allow their voice to be heard (ie by their 'black police' group within the police force) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogmaw Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 What pisses me off most is the fact that the minorities claim they are picked on by the Police, but when the statistics are compared, it is the minorities who are committing the crimes so of course they get more attention. Stop shooting each other and the world would be a better place! Maybe they wouldn't shoot each other if they weren't all minorities. They don't all 'shoot each other' when in the majority do they? Give people freedom of expression and liberate them from the feeling that they are in the minority, and you'll see less crime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogmaw Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 As for white policemen, the reason they can't have a group of their own is because the minorities would claim that it is racist.... how can you have a white group and be accused of being racist and a black group that isnt? - PC has gone mad Read my earlier post. It is all about MINORITY and MAJORITY. Why would the white majority need their own group? WHY? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbourner Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 If you talk to a young black teenager on some rough estate, and show him a black policeman, then you show him that police aren't all white and racist. Then he will have more faith in the police and justice system. If he thinks ALL police are white, then he will lose all hope, and you have a problem teenager on your hands. How many young black teenagers think that all the police are racist whities then? If there are more than 3 then I'd be suprised, and frankly would change my highly un-racist views somewhat - surely they can't be that dumb/naive? And the flip side, how many young white teenagers (or middle aged white men, or old white women etc. etc.) would be offended if you told them there are groups set up specifically for coloured people, which they could not be a part of. Yet there are NO groups AT ALL that prevent coloured people from joining? Well just look at this thread for your answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJI Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 Eh? How did you work that out? By pointing out that we have black police officers shows to ALL people that the police are not a bunch of racist white bullies who pick on black people, because it shows that we have members of the police that are black! If we did have an all-white police force, what message to black people does that put out? Think about it. I think this is a view felt by a lot of people but at the same time it is in itself totally racist. Why would there be the assumption that if a policeman is white then he/she must be racist against black people ??? There will, in the world of belance through numbers, be the same percentage of racists included in the white AND black policemen and policewomen. Why one is perceved to be more racist than the other is beyond me. We do have to accept that racism exists... after all we still live in a society that allows free thought and free speech... not saying that it is a welcome part of free society but it is there none the less. But I still don't know why the white population is seen as MORE racist than the black and asian communities. My brother is a policeman and he has a black girlfreind and he sees racism from all sides of social backgrounds.... asian and black people are usually racist towards each other in some areas where he works, similarly he hears of racism against white and black, black and white, etc. etc. etc. etc. I don't think it is something that will go away as long as we[society] have very different background up bringings and the excuse to call somebody different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyP Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 I never said give a black person an advantage over a white. Where did I say that? I am saying make their achievements more visible and allow their voice to be heard (ie by their 'black police' group within the police force) positive discrimination A policy designed to favour some deprived region or minority and to redress, at least in part, uneven development. Policies of positive discrimination have been criticized for treating the effects of inequality rather than tackling its causes. Other criticisms made are that not all of the minority or region needs help, and that many deprived people are outside the catchment area. None the less, the EU, for example, still uses schemes of positive discrimination, through the European Regional Development Fund. However worthy the aims of positive discrimination are, favoring one section of society over another is wrong, whether the section being favored is the minority or the majority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 Surely positive discrimination would have them labelled as "policepeople" instead of "policemen"? errr, no. You've clearly misunderstood the term. I'm not entirely sure what you mean. At work we're encouraged to not use titles such as "chairman" which imply that the person in that role can only be male. Maybe so but that is not Positive Discrimination. The whole business of calling coppers "PolicePeople" isn't anything to do with Positive Discrimination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogmaw Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 positive discrimination However worthy the aims of positive discrimination are, favoring one section of society over another is wrong, whether the section being favored is the minority or the majority. WTF? How can it be 'wrong' to favour one section of society over another? If one area is more needy than another, why shouldn't it be favoured? Black areas need black policemen, not just white, and Asian areas need Asian policemen. It instills confidence, understanding and trust in the police among the people on the streets that they are working in. The black or Asian policeman in these areas is essential for the job. Sometimes the colour of your skin can be used to positive benefit, but I would not call that discrimination in a negative way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogmaw Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 How many young black teenagers think that all the police are racist whities then? If there are more than 3 then I'd be suprised, and frankly would change my highly un-racist views somewhat - surely they can't be that dumb/naive? And the flip side, how many young white teenagers (or middle aged white men, or old white women etc. etc.) would be offended if you told them there are groups set up specifically for coloured people, which they could not be a part of. Yet there are NO groups AT ALL that prevent coloured people from joining? Well just look at this thread for your answer. Haha you're in for a big surprise. Come to London, I'll take you round some estates around in Hackney, and we'll chat to some of the young black kids! And I repeat, again, WHY would any white person want to join a group that was for WHITES ONLY? Please answer someone??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbourner Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 And I repeat, again, WHY would any white person want to join a group that was for WHITES ONLY? Please answer someone??? People like being part of groups, why would blacks want to join a group that whites can't join? And you can't just say because they're a minority because we all know that white discrimination from blacks happens the same as the vice versa! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyP Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 And I repeat, again, WHY would any white person want to join a group that was for WHITES ONLY? Please answer someone??? I've no idea and I wouldn't want to. The reason all of this pisses me off is that whites wouldn't be allowed to belong to a group only for whites but blacks can belong to groups only for blacks. Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlotte Posted October 24, 2007 Author Share Posted October 24, 2007 I don't want this thread to turn into some kind of racial argument. I couldn't understand the categorisation myself, it seems to be a very negative approach. I need to do more research. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M4RK RZ Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 I'm white and I don't think it's a load of toss. Perhaps you should think again exactly what point of view you're trying to present. I think that one flew over your head a little/lot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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