Wez Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Hey All, Following on from some recent threads regarding smaller turbos I was just wondering if anyone knew what the real difference was between the Turbonetics 60-1 and the Precision T61. The 60-1 is what PHR class as a stage 1 and the precision is used by BL. Here are the compressor maps :- #Turbonetics 60-1 #Precision T61 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted October 11, 2007 Author Share Posted October 11, 2007 If I am reading these right the pressure ratio is equal to boost, ie 2.4 is 1.4bar boost and 3.0 is 2bar boost. With that in mind you take the flow at given pressure ratio to give rough max HP output. 60-1 @ 1.4bar max 650hp 60-1 @ 1.1bar max 560hp T61 @ 1.4bar max 700hp T61 @ 1.1bar max 640hp I know there are a lot more variables that come into play like cover sizes and engine VE etc but as a rough guide is this correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 I think you're reading that right The T61 seems to handle more RPM's (of the turbo itself) much better without dropping out of it's efficiency island. Shame we don't know what the efficiency of the T60-1 is Can't really compare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted October 11, 2007 Author Share Posted October 11, 2007 Here is another 60-1 compressor map which shows efficiency. EDIT: this is a Innovative Turbo and the map is a little different Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Same map different scale across the bottom. I think it would be brilliant if you and Ryan could do some back to back testing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted October 11, 2007 Author Share Posted October 11, 2007 I think it would be brilliant if you and Ryan could do some back to back testing. What testing? Now you have a 60-1 map with efficiency on it, how would you compare the turbos? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Same engine and setup testing - using your two turbos. See what results you get with an optimised map on the same setup. The T61's efficiency island is much larger, which is better, it can take much more boost without a fall off in performace through overheating the air. At 76% it's also slightly better than the T60-1 manages. The T60-1 looks like its not suitable for over 1.4bar and this should be it's absolute limit. The T61 on the other hand can seemingly take at least 1.8bar before it drops out of the 76% zone (however that does depend on how much air it's having to shift to make 1.8bar....if it's 50lbs/min then you're laughing. I'd need to do some calcs to see where a 3L 6cylinder comes on the chart....and really decide which is best. I have A. Graham Bell's, Forced Induction Performance Tuning, book here which on page 90 explains it all....I'll see if I can work it out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 1bar of boost (3*7000*90*2)/5660 =667.8 667.8*0.07 =46.8 46.8lb's of air for 1 bar of boost (assuming a 7000 rpm rev limit on a 90%VE 3L engine.) *********** 1.1bar (3*7000*90*2.085)/5660 =696.22 696.22*0.07 =48.7LB/MIN ************** 1.4bar (3*7000*90*2.382)/5660 =795.40 795.40*0.07 =55.7LB/MIN ************** 1.8bar (3*7000*90*2.776)/5660 =926.96 926.96*0.07 =64.9LB/MIN Plot on the compressor maps these points and see how it fairs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted October 11, 2007 Author Share Posted October 11, 2007 That would be great I wonder if the PHR Stage 2 (GT62) is a Turbonetics 62-1 turbo, the efficiency island on this tubby reaches into the 1.8bar region. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 From what I can see 65lb's at 1.8bar is getting too risky with the T61...so I'll retract my last statement and suggest 1.4 is again the best option. I'll let you edit the pics...got to go off line Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted October 11, 2007 Author Share Posted October 11, 2007 Plot on the compressor maps these points and see how it fairs How exactly, just plot the X & Y axis with the boost and lbs/min and see what efficiency they fall into? What would this represent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted October 11, 2007 Author Share Posted October 11, 2007 I am wondering if it would be more efficient then to map your boost different at different RPMs. ie ramp upto 1.6bar and then as revs increase decrease boost to say 1.4bar to maintain your power in the efficiency island of the turbo. What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kylestt Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 I have an 61 on my auto car, it literally spools like stock turbos. I dynoed it on just the wastegate pressure .7 bar and it made almost identical #s and spool as my stock turbo car with full exhaust. .7 bar = 300whp 1.3bar = seat of the pants dyno fast! i'll take it back and dyno again this weekend and try and put the charts up for you guys but the 61 is an awesome little street turbo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 How exactly, just plot the X & Y axis with the boost and lbs/min and see what efficiency they fall into? What would this represent? Yup It represents what the 2JZ needs - you can use those figures on any turbo to get an idea of how well it fits what the Supra needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pig Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Running a T61 here (however it is watercooled) I dont know if this would make much difference. Figures at 1.45 bar (max i run) are 513 @ the hubs on a hub dyno. (Would be intersted to see a real figure, e.g surry.) Interesting thread. I would love to see these 2 compared with a T67 DBB also if its possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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