bmx1lew Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 Just want to pick your brains with a few questions befor you lot asked i have done some searching and reading around. 1.firstly if some one says i have 400bhp do people generally mean at the wheels or fly? 2.My targets with the soop is to aim towards 400 to 450bhp top's, when i say that how would you interpreted that wheels or fly? 3.I have read about bpu which shows some impressive gains but comes with allot of mixed figures, with bpu what is the over all bhp gain's, i hear people say 340, 360, 380, 400..again not every ones car is the same but just a rough official figure? 4.If i want to aim for the 400 or 450 mark what work including bpu would i require can it be done without having to go single also not having to push the turbo's that much that it drastically shortens there life span, I dont really want to go single, only if i have to, say if my turbos blow, is it possible to get 400 or 450 without having to go single, obviously this requires BPU but as said it seems to be in the air about what gains can be achieved with what before changing to single. also i say 450 tops because i don't know what can be achieved before going single, if possible then belta but i feel 400 would do me. cheers lew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 1, If people mean the at the wheels they always says so. So in your example they would say "400rwhp". 2, How would I interpret what you say? God knows. It could be either. 3, Say 300 to 320 rwhp or anything from 350 to 400 "at the flywheel", depending on the drivetrain losses allowed and the generosity of the Dyno operator. 4, BPU might get you around the 400FlywheelHP, hybrids should do it too. You'd need quite a lot of supporting mods to reliably make a genuine 450@Fly though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 400rwhp is going to be pushing the TT setup to the absolute limit, you'd need a good set of hybrids to get anywhere near it. My car with stock turbo's reached 360rwhp, this was with 11.9 AFR's, 1.25bar boost The most power hybrid car I know of is Grahamc's (well at least last been done at a dyno with comparable results). Graham has 380rwhp at 1.4bar and a *proper* map. My T67 makes 460rwhp at 1.4bar, so it gives you some idea where you need to head to get over 400 at the wheels Edited - unless you mean at the flywheel?? Then it's possible with the stock setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 The flywheel figure is what manufacturers quote, this is the highest figure, hp is lost through the drivetrain so rear wheel figures are always a percentage lower. On stock turbos you're looking at around 430 flywheel hp tops, with hybrids around 450 flywheel hp, but you'll need a lot of supporting mods as said eg. Intercooler, some way of controlling the fueling and timing, etc. I would go BPU first and then see if you are satisfied with the performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmx1lew Posted September 17, 2007 Author Share Posted September 17, 2007 nice one, so when toyota say the supra is 320 bhp and say for instance the top gear review they say 320hp it means at the fly wheel, if thats the case i will say 400 450 at the fly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 I keep hearing these quotes of 400 odd flywheel BHP, but according to a reputable RR 360BHP seems to be the average BPU BHP, i think it would have to be an exceptional Supra to make anywhere near 400BHP at BPU, be interesting to see just how many there actually are, with proof from a recognised accurate RR graph;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 If you want a genuine 400 to 450 BHP at the flywheel you will need to bin the sequentials and spend some serious money, nitrous, or grenade like modifications apart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmx1lew Posted September 17, 2007 Author Share Posted September 17, 2007 its just a thought at the moment i wanted to know for next summer, the plan is for winter, while its off road im going to be working on the wheels, brake's, coil overs, body work, window tints,head lights, interior dash think carbon and crome rings, and leathering the seats. then probs saving up for the summer, once thats all well and good.. well paid for, i will start looking at the engine and seeing were to spend next, as said im not aiming to high on HP however ever time i meet people with supras i get more insipration... its just spend spend but i dont think i will be chaning cars soon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 If you want a high performance car, I'd forgo the leather retrim and get either alcantara or a half leather trim (alcantara centre, leather bolsters). Leather is too slippery in a highly modded supra. Your money is better spent on some decent 3, 4 or 5 point harnesses. Or better still some proper seats Pretty decent new ones are about the same price (or less) than a retrim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mplavery Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 i went bpu. just to let you know at the wheels it ran at 370bhp..i got told it was about 420 at fly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt k Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 i went bpu. just to let you know at the wheels it ran at 370bhp..i got told it was about 420 at fly Sounds like a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 i went bpu. just to let you know at the wheels it ran at 370bhp..i got told it was about 420 at fly 420 at the fly is hybrid territory! do you have a graph from a RR that is proven to have an accurate IE non customer friendly settings;) there is a vast difference between some RR, a lot are very err shall we say flattering;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam bell Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 dyno results are only a guide surely as all dynos will give different results depending on there set up. so 420 at one place might be 400 at another Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodilx6 Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 I keep hearing these quotes of 400 odd flywheel BHP, but according to a reputable RR 360BHP seems to be the average BPU BHP, i think it would have to be an exceptional Supra to make anywhere near 400BHP at BPU, be interesting to see just how many there actually are, with proof from a recognised accurate RR graph;) I've just dynoed mine with the 1st cat still in and running a max of 0,9 bar (13 psi). it returned 353 flywheel hp's. I'm soon to remove the cat add a FCD and RR and I'm guessing for 390 hp's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SupraJames Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 My UK Spec Auto BPU run 374.4 at the Hubs, no idea what that works out to fly or wheel..? That was at 1.1 Bar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
movistar Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 I don't want to put a dampener on things but i have heard of people tweaking dyno's to give a higher figure especially those who carry out the mods for you as well...leading you to think that your car has more bhp than it actually does..you go off happy and recommend them and hey presto nice bit of business! Iam not saying there are not genuine people out there, just that a few are pulling the wool over people eyes... beware!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmx1lew Posted September 18, 2007 Author Share Posted September 18, 2007 If you want a high performance car, I'd forgo the leather retrim and get either alcantara or a half leather trim (alcantara centre, leather bolsters). Leather is too slippery in a highly modded supra. Your money is better spent on some decent 3, 4 or 5 point harnesses. Or better still some proper seats Pretty decent new ones are about the same price (or less) than a retrim. have a look on funkypower's web site and tell me what you think of the seats on there, there pretty cheap and look the business like, does alacantara cost more then leather? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 I don't want to put a dampener on things but i have heard of people tweaking dyno's to give a higher figure especially those who carry out the mods for you as well...leading you to think that your car has more bhp than it actually does..you go off happy and recommend them and hey presto nice bit of business! Iam not saying there are not genuine people out there, just that a few are pulling the wool over people eyes... beware!! Thats why i said in my post about graphs from a proven reliable RR, or at least from a RR day, so hopefully all cars where run on the same setting:innocent: i quite agree about RR being tweaked to make customers happy:rolleyes: This is why you see so many conflicting results, and thats why IMO that the 365BHP average is about right;) Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking all you people who firmly believe that you have over 400BHP i would just be very interested to see a level playing field so to speak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaymdee Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 Working on the generally accepted notion of 10bhp per PSI boost increase, a full BPU car at 1.2 bar = increase of approx 6.5 psi, which would equate to 320+65 = 385 bhp. Most BPUs don't run 1.2 Bar, more like between 1.0 and 1.1, so as Tricky-Ricky says, average is probaly more like 365. All this is pointless however, as you can't measure flywheel HP, so an accurate RR session (eg Surrey RR) giving the rear wheel HP is a more meaningful comparison, providing you have results before and after any mods on your car, as no two cars are ever the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodilx6 Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 good rule of thumb! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest yoshi_v300 Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 My 2JZ-GTE Aristo popped out 430-450hp roughly @ 1.25 bar. I did have it boosted to the max on stock twins - intercooler, competition cat, downpipe, air filter, TOMS ecu map etc. Although not rolling roaded I did several 'assumption' tests : - floored it behind a 400hp M5 as it floored it also for a good bit on the motorway. I had slick tyres in the back and loads of luggage. I presume our weights were similar, Aristo is 1680 kilos dry and the M5 old styleee 1800 kilos...with all the slicks/wheels/luggage I reckon we were even. Anyway, neither of us could seperate and I was running low boost around 1.0bar. - ran a 1/4 mile on a really chit surface at Crail. Ran 13.5s launching at 3000rpm @1.25 bar. Compare that to a BMW M3 CSL which runs 13.2s (obviously on a good surface, with michelin cup slicks, prob. at 7000rpm launch). By this presumption, we could assume that both cars were running same straight line 1/4 mile speed. That would equate to 260hp per tonne for the BMW M3 CSL and 260hp per tonne for the Aristo (giving the Aristo 436hp at the fly assumed figure). This was also backed up by Pete @ THOR who boosted his Aristo to 1.2bar with a stock intercooler and cranked out 450hp on his dyno @ the fly. I think the best way to get power out of your 2JZ-GTE stock motor is to run 1.2bar with 100RON, Jap ecu or HKS V-Con etc. with a proper map and of course do all the exhaust/intercooler etc. too. I typically run around at 0.9/1.0 bar and only very rarely turn it up to 1.2bar if I'm racing another car for a short time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 My 2JZ-GTE Aristo popped out 430-450hp roughly @ 1.25 bar. I did have it boosted to the max on stock twins - intercooler, competition cat, downpipe, air filter, TOMS ecu map etc. Although not rolling roaded I did several 'assumption' tests : Sorry can't believe that no matter who backs it! no way on stock twins:search: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaymdee Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 My 2JZ-GTE Aristo popped out 430-450hp roughly @ 1.25 bar... Although not rolling roaded I did several 'assumption' tests This was also backed up by Pete @ THOR who boosted his Aristo to 1.2bar with a stock intercooler and cranked out 450hp on his dyno @ the fly. Sorry, but I'm not sure 'assumption' tests are gonna be particularly accurate. I'm also sure that many people on here think the Thor Dyno overeggs the pudding so to speak (but may be wrong) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mplavery Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 420 at the fly is hybrid territory! do you have a graph from a RR that is proven to have an accurate IE non customer friendly settings;) there is a vast difference between some RR, a lot are very err shall we say flattering;) got it done with THOR at Jae...got the test sheets and it says 370 at the wheels....weather that is correct or not im not that botherd more for making sure it was running ok really.....Must admit i thought it was high too..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 got it done with THOR at Jae...got the test sheets and it says 370 at the wheels That's odd, cos Thor don't measure at the wheels. Thor measure the power at the hubs and are well known to give much higher readings than any of the seriously-taken dynos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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