Supragal Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 Spot on idea, I could double it in a couple of weeks when they're back to normal *if* The way people are withdrawing all their money they will go under!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorin Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 Even if every customer wanted to withdraw their money they still have enough assets to draw on to give it to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewOW Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 *if* The way people are withdrawing all their money they will go under!!! Mass hysteria! Nuts. Anyway, I would start to worry about... now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 Even if every customer wanted to withdraw their money they still have enough assets to draw on to give it to them. Well they don't, that's the problem;) But then again they shouldn't be expected to. No bank can survive such a sudden run, not even the biggest one. Remember Fort Knox in the early seventies, even they couldn't survive a run that's why Nixon broke the convertibility. In the case of NR (and others:innocent:) the value of the 'assets' on the balance sheets bears no resemblance to reality if they were forced to liquidate them. Especially in this environment, they wouldn't get many pennies per pound of toxic 'asset' Common sense and calmness will prevail eventually, and all will be OK again (albeit at a lower level, we've been riding a bubble for some years now and a reality check is due) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorin Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 Well they don't, that's the problem;) According to the article on the BBC news website and the financial expert dude on the news last night they do. But then the media doesn't always things right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 According to the article on the BBC news website and the financial expert dude on the news last night they do. But then the media doesn't always things right. They do, if their assets fetch what the paper values are. But that's why we have a credit crunch in the first place: too many assets are floating around and they are not worth the paper they are written on (the toxic stuff). They were priced competitively, that's why corrupt (or incompetent) fund managers stacked them high. But they won't fetch their nominal price, and nobody wants to trade with anyone who may be holding them. Just like trading IOUs of supra tuners. If you had a bunch of them from Martin a year ago you'd be king, but as soon as they changed the tune nobody would want these IOUs at face value;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozz Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 They do, if their assets fetch what the paper values are. But that's why we have a credit crunch in the first place: too many assets are floating around and they are not worth the paper they are written on (the toxic stuff). They were priced competitively, that's why corrupt (or incompetent) fund managers stacked them high. But they won't fetch their nominal price, and nobody wants to trade with anyone who may be holding them. Just like trading IOUs of supra tuners. If you had a bunch of them from Martin a year ago you'd be king, but as soon as they changed the tune nobody would want these IOUs at face value;) I thought they did have enough money to give to customers because they can draw an unlimited amount from the BOE at +1 baserate. The key with these guys is that they can afford to go light on the savers because unlike most banks that is not their main business focus. Mortgages is their biggest source of income and that is not a quick thing to change. What is most likely IMO is a takeover as their mortgage books are so healthy. I'm toying with the idea of buying shares, but there is a slim risk it could be wiped out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewie Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 Why bother buying a lame duck stock like NR? You have so much to choose. All of the banking sector has taken a hammering. E.g. look at Alliance & Leicester and Bradford & Bingley. They've both taken a hammering but will have a better recovery chance than NR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorin Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 They've both taken a hammering but will have a better recovery chance than NR. True, but then those aren't likely to get bought out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 A&L Are being targetted by greedy people, testing to see if they'll crumble....exploiting any weakness to make a profit.....and to hell with everyone who has a vested interest in A&L NR etc staying in one piece. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 People with offshore accounts should bear in mind that the UK Financial Services Compensation Scheme doesn't apply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 I thought they did have enough money to give to customers because they can draw an unlimited amount from the BOE at +1 baserate. where did you get that from? It's a company like any other in the sense that if they make bad decisions they will lose money. On the other hand, being a bank and part of the whole banking system that is purely based on trust, it is to everyone's interest that this trust is maintained. So now comes the moral hazard: Does the BOE back them up all the way? That is effectively using taxpayers' money to cover up incompetence and corruption of a private company. Or does the BOE leave them to boil in their juice and lose their shirts? Leaving market forces work can bring some devastating results sometimes. But the BOE is not a separate entity, it is not the Vatican. Ultimately it is part of the government, who also have the keys to the presses (that print money!) So it looks like the government is now going for the 'blank cheque' approach. It's a bit like losing your fortune in a casino and then asking the government for your money back. Only on a huge scale, that could destabilise the whole economy. I can't blame them for taking this approach, even if it sends the wrong signals for corrupt financiers all over the country;) Stability of the economy and trust in the system comes first. I'm toying with the idea of buying shares, but there is a slim risk it could be wiped out. Very risky! It's not like the dotcom boom where British Steel had dropped extremely low, despite having intrinsic value many times over. This now is a web of deceit, theft, malicious rumours and sheer incompetence. Someone's bound to lose money here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 I see the NR shares are on the up today +10p already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 I see the NR shares are on the up today +10p already. w00t I was right...so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SupraStormRising Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 Interesting reading. John you couldn't be further from the truth, now appart from the fact that the member banks all 16 of them have a mutual agreement to help customers of a failed bank NR isn't going to fail they actually have £120billion if they were going to fail the BoE wouldn't have given the loan to them. Believe me I see £900 million a day going between the banks the £2billion that's been withdrawn is peanuts. Buying shares was a good idea yesterday not so good from now on as you won't make as much money. It makes me laugh how much people listen to the idiot media when most of the news is self perpetuating bullsh@# anyway.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 ..Believe me I see £900 million a day going between the banks.. I've seen as much or more dude, before y2K I had worked on interbank money tranfer code. Not material in this case, volume is one thing, purpose is another. Intentions and human sentiment are fickle, greed turns to fear pretty quickly, and widespread dishonesty doesn't help one bit. If you remember the LTCM saga, it was resolved quietly;). So will this one, the scale of the problem is similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SupraStormRising Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 Mmmm indeed the £900mil is just Direct Credits and Direct Debits and bank settlement. Let alone the Swift or CHAPS clearing At least NR will defo be okay now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 ... At least NR will defo be okay now ...at the expense of sending the signal that it's OK to take stupid risks, because if you fail the old lady will bail you out.... What next? Soros asking for a refund? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 ...at the expense of sending the signal that it's OK to take stupid risks, because if you fail the old lady will bail you out.... Hardly...the share price has been cut down and exposed the company to predators. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SupraStormRising Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 Indeed low share price makes takeover a lot easier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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