T2 MSW Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 It ruins the sport in my opinion! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muffleman Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 To the FIA, probably to be squandered by Max Mosley. Shame Dennis didn't headbutt him. Agreed ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SupraStar 3000 Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 Its a £50million fine for Mclaren and also out the constructor championship. Including constructor championship that could run into £100million or more. Drivers are ok thank god This sucks big time! F1 was looking so good. Way to go Ferrari! Great was to fuck up f1. Thanks alot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonB Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 It was always going to go that way, it's well known that Max Mosely loathes Ron Dennis and the FIA basically do what he says for various political reasons. I'd like to know how exactly McLaren are supposed to have benefitted this year from the info seeing as their car was already designed at the point it was received though! You could make a case for next year's car perhaps but not this year. Also, why were Ferrari not penalised for allowing Stepney to give them it? Come to think of it, why were Toyota not penalised when a Ferrari employee gave them a load of info a few years back? It will be interesting to see the emails that were sent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazboy Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 It's just politics This season has been brilliant, I can't remember the last time there was a 4 way scrap for the title- probably 1986 between Mansell, Prost, Piquet & Senna ffs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 Am I right in thinking that this all started because Ferrari were doing something illegal with their car that was 'outed' by a guy who could only have known of this if he had read their technical data? If so, why aren't they being penalised? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazboy Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 They had a dodgy floor iirc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branners Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 lol despite the fact that Hamilton drives for McLaren are we all forgetting they had a full ferrari technical dossier in their possession?!?!?! I think a ban is appropiate. And Ferrari never cheat? They all cheat by copying each others designs, they have people on their books to take close up photos of cars and they have their OWN people in the pit lane timing certain elements of the work. If that same dossier came Ferrari's way they would have snapped it up, its how they win races, by being one step ahead. I have never liked Mclaren, but if they do get fined and excluded then thats F1 over for me as its just a mockery at that point. I also used to like Ferrari but thats out the window too. They have no real interest in the spectators or the sport, its purely about getting as much money through their books as possible. JB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 This is indeed a travasty. The F(errari)IA will do anything to kiss Ferrari's arse. It's $100m (Dollars!) minus the amount they would have last through being stripped of points. 2008's car must be proven to contain nothing that can be deemed as Ferrari's intelectual property...how they'll do that when every car on the grid is 99% the same I have no idea!! I think that, Ferrari have photo's of something on the McLaren that's like what they have...shock horror + coughlan's confessed to having the docs... What narks me most is that McLaren used the info to point out how Ferrari were cheating, and Ferrari get them punished rather than the other way around! FFS politics gone nuts! This has only ruined the sport. I hope McLaren crush Ferrari in the last races of the year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Class One Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 I think all the teams should withdraw. The whole thing is a shambles, a charade. Ferrari have ruined it for everyone. This years championship is now worthless, whoever wins it whether it be a Ferrari or McLaren driver, their win will be tainted. I expect no-one wants to win it now. What a crock of shite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitesupraboy2 Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 if they did wrong its the correct punishment. However the way its been handled in the public spotlight may of just killed alot of support for the sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 I expect no-one wants to win it now. What a crock of shite. No I think you'll find Ferrari want to win it, at any cost, no matter how tarnished it is. Ferrari cheats, gets told to change things. Gets the whistleblower sacked and dragged through the courts. Everyone said whistleblower touches gets ripped to shreds ie McLaren. Michelin run the same tyre for 3 years...Ferrari on Bridgestones get the FIA to rule the Michelin tyre when the Michelin runners start to beat Ferrari. Mass Dampers run by Renault...Ferrari bitch, cause Renault are winning. Ferrari have broken the rules so many times it's untrue...yet they just get quietly asked to stop... EDIT forgot the barge board incident - Schumi/Fezza won both titles with illegal barge boards, when it was decided that they were illegal, no action was taken to strip them of points...DOUBLE FOOKIN STANDARDS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 if they did wrong its the correct punishment. However the way its been handled in the public spotlight may of just killed alot of support for the sport. Shades of grey... If you're given something by an agrived member of another team with the intention for you to out the cheaters...is it then fair that you get the book thrown at you and the cheats walk away? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil tt Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 What a loud of shi-e, another good season up the swany:( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 Statement from Ron Dennis. “The most important thing is that we will be going motor racing this weekend, the rest of the season and every season. This means that our drivers can continue to compete for the World Championship. However having been at the hearing today I do not accept that we deserved to be penalised in this way.” “Today’s evidence given to the FIA by our drivers, engineers and staff clearly demonstrated that we did not use any leaked information to gain a competitive advantage.” “Much has been made in the press and at the hearing today of emails and text messages to and from our drivers. The World Motorsport Council received statements from Fernando Alonso, Lewis Hamilton and Pedro de la Rosa stating categorically that no Ferrari information had been used by McLaren and that they had not passed any confidential data to the team.” “The entire engineering team in excess of 140 people provided statements to the FIA affirming that they had never received or used the Ferrari information.” “We have never denied that the information from Ferrari was in the personal possession of one of our employees at his home. The issue is: was this information used by McLaren? This is not the case and has not been proven today.” “We are also continually asked if McLaren didn’t use the information, what was the reason for Stepney and Coughlan collecting all this data about Ferrari? We can only speculate as neither Coughlan nor Stepney gave evidence at today’s hearing, but we do know that they were both seeking employment with other teams, as already confirmed by both Honda and Toyota.” “There will be no issue for the 2008 season as we have not at any stage used any intellectual property of any other team.” “We have got the best drivers and the best car and we intend to win the World Championship.” Good for them, go kill 'em on the race track! No press statement has yet given any new damning evidence. Innocent until PROVEN guilty doesn't seem to apply to the FIA. How the FIA can hand out this sort of punishment to a whole team because of the actions of 2 men is beyond me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Class One Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 Have they stated an intention of appeal against this ruling? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazboy Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 Shame he didn't say "we looked at the Ferrari technical documents and laughed our socks off" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muffleman Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 I hope McLaren crush Ferrari in the last races of the year. EXACTLY what I am hoping for Shame he didn't say "we looked at the Ferrari technical documents and laughed our socks off" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merckx Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 I hope McLaren crush Ferrari in the last races of the year. I very much hope so. I will be interesting to see what happens now, Ron Dennis says it wasn't proven that they used anything from Ferrari in their own cars. Why did Sky cut short the press conference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 They'll appeal, no doubting that...wouldn't you with $100m on the table! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitesupraboy2 Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 Ive read that they may not be able to appeal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 Ive read that they may not be able to appeal. FIA have always said that "Unless you're Ferrari, you face draconian action if you dare to appeal." I think they're facing draconian measures already!!! Even if the WMSC won't hear an appeal, McLaren will take it to a proper court of law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattanna Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 Well i have always been a ferrari fan, but this lot has caused a lot of trouble really and the season is so good, Ferrari can be a pain in the arse, but i also think they are the only team who are true racers as their results do not have any impact on car sales etc, where as most other teams are driven by the brand i.e renault, mercedes,bmw,honda,toyota etc, only certain people can afford Ferrari's and nothing will change that, commercial interests are the problem at heart with the "sport" imo, especially by car manufacturers, even red bull are trying to sell drinks, nevertheless if this turns out to be the case and Ferrari win the titles i am sure they will not be pleased with how it was done, as maclaren had the edge, if they had the edge because they nicked design elements from Ferrari then fair enough but it is still a pity!!, remember when Maclaren were going through their bad stage Norbet Haugher of Mercedes threatened to withdraw mercedes engines, Merc do not give a hoot about maclaren only the sales of their cars, Ferrari however are not in it to boost Fiat sales, and as i previously said sales of Ferrari cars will not really be affected by F1 results:search: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 I hope that every true F1 fan will show their disapproval at the remaining races this season. Boo Ferrari and their drivers, turn their back if Ferrari get a win. That sort of thing. Personal I'd enjoy seeing that ugly troll-like fucker, Jean Todt getting a pasting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattanna Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 you mean every british fan, so they would endorse cheating? which is obviously the case hence the penalty, whether it was Stepney's doing or not, fact is no other team has been seen to hold a technical dossier of anothers team specs, whether or not they all have people taking photos of other cars etc, i do agree though that the "sport" is a farce, but i doubt that is entirely Ferrari's fault, as i said before more likely the car manufacturers fault, hence Ferrari's anger towards many of them, they have only ever built race cars, not diesel estates, trucks, vans etc, etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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