Chris Wilson Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 I'll give you a free tip Put a set of brand new plugs in it, if it runs OK ish for a short hile, then starts to miss again, and finally starts to run mad rich again, it's a mapping / overfueeling problem. If it soots up even one plug and a miss starts this will trigger a sequence of O2 sensor events that culminates in it running mad rich under any area of the map that uses the O2 sensor output. You need to datalog wide band O2 output, injector duration, water temp and ignition timing and throttle opening *AT THE VERY LEAST* to have a prayer of efficiently anlysing what's going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 Originally posted by Tannhauser Anyway, the big question is: how far can I safely drive it like this? I was going to take it to Matt to get a wbo2 sensor, but I'm concerned about the consequences for the engine - if it will make it that far.... Any views? Above edited for brevity. I think you should stop using it until it has proper diagnostics running in real time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 Originally posted by absxxxx black smoke can be caused by even a blocked air filter it does not mean he has already suffered bore wash just cus it smokes:D I'm already wishing i hadn't got involved in all this.... However, trust me, an engine running mad rich enough to belch black smoke under load is putting enough fuel down one or more bores to cause bore wash. How long the oil dilution needs to occur before ring damage resulting in compression or oil control loss, and / or the bore(s) glaze is a moot point, but the process starts *as soon as* fuelling is so excessive as to "belch black smoke" under load. Well, I think I'm right, but WTF do I know..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
absz Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 the way this is carrying on i think you might as well have it booked into a garage and have it done with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tannhauser Posted November 29, 2004 Author Share Posted November 29, 2004 OK thanks Chris; I'm glad you got involved. I'm not sure that it is smoking under load as it's a bit hard to see, I need someone to drive behind me really. .....but it's certainly smoking when it's idling. I put new plugs in and initially it started beautifully, but it took a very short time (20-30 miles)before it was struggling again, which seems to be in accord with what you're saying. I'm not intending to drive it until I can get it to someone (though of course that entails driving it there...). Fingers crossed that no damage has occurred yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 Originally posted by Chris Wilson You need to datalog wide band O2 output, injector duration, water temp and ignition timing and throttle opening *AT THE VERY LEAST* to have a prayer of efficiently anlysing what's going on. If the water temp sensor has gone funny the car may think it's under cold start conditions all the time, although that would to me say that it would start great from cold and terrible when warm, and the idle quality would fall apart as the engine warmed up. You can check the water temp sensor by examining the voltage on its line going into the ECU and comparing it against what it should be. The car was mapped 2 months ago and this problem has only just surfaced, either the map has vanished (which you've checked and it hasn't) or the E-Manage isn't actually changing the airflow signal (which I find hard to believe). My money is on the closed loop narrowband O2 sensor being up the chute or something funny going on with the fuel pressure. That's where I'd start anyway, although datalogging the injector duty cycle would be a good idea - if you can do duty cycle, injector ms time, rpm, throttle position, airflow v in and airflow v out, that would be great Oh, and the Greddy MAP sensor voltage too. Get that datalog off the E-01 and over to me I can tell you if it's any different to before... -Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 Cliff, are you saying it's chucking out black smoke at light/cruising throttle? FWIW, if it IS belching out black smoke constantly, I agree with Chris, don't drive it *** edited *** IIRC, you can get black smoke at idle, if one of the intake hoses comes off along the intake manifold/plenum, and that may cause the engine to hunt a bit... Worth checking the hoses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tannhauser Posted November 29, 2004 Author Share Posted November 29, 2004 Thanks for replies. As I said before, it's hard to know if it's smoking on throttle or not. There isn't anyone that can check this for me during the day and it's going to be hard to spot at night. I don't want to risk it; might have to rent something. Ian, I could pursue the datalogging but I would require hand-holding through it, which I'm anticipating would be time-consuming for a.n.other. Instead, I'm going to order a fuel pressure and wbo2 gauge and sensors, which I was planning on getting eventually anyway, and get these fitted. There's a place 25 miles away that might do it.... ..... unless I've got any local volunteers? I would pay for the work/travelling time Traders, see my thread in 'Traders Questions'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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