tooquicktostop Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 I have been wondering this week while waiting for my rebuild and the ££££ 's of mapping to come why no company has developed an ECU able to self map ? I maybe way out here so waits to be shot down but with Jet aircraft almost flying themselves these days and fault finding computers on these planes reporting and adjusting systems during flight why a cars fuelling and timing can not be adjusted by the ECU leanring as you drive it, I know every car will have a different spec but the end results as far as AFR's are all very similar no? For example if you plugged in the new ECU and started the car the ECU would read AFR, timing etc, then on a small screen you punched in the required boost setting perhaps even some spec details and then while driving and following instruction from the screen you slowly build boost and the ECU learns and adjusts as you go? Science fiction??? Maybe I need to get my car back to stop my mind wondering like this, its dangerous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 That is a good question. It is not just AFRs that can be recorded and traced either, nowadays even proximity to detonation can be measured by spark plug ionisation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 Start reading lots of good books by people like Corky Bell and Graham A Bell. These will help you to understand what's going on in an engine and what the mapper needs to achieve. Then if you want to learn how to map a standalone you need really to pay someone to teach you how to use a specific one. If I had an AEM I'd gather up a few base maps and do the rest myself. Equipment needed; Det Cans (Headphones), WB02 sensor that can read a wide range of AFR's, something like 9:1 - 19:1 like the Innovative. Laptop with good battery life and or a converter to make a laptop run off the cigarette lighter. But you really need to read up on the basics first! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobSheffield Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 Start reading lots of good books by people like Corky Bell and Graham A Bell. These will help you to understand what's going on in an engine and what the mapper needs to achieve. Then if you want to learn how to map a standalone you need really to pay someone to teach you how to use a specific one. If I had an AEM I'd gather up a few base maps and do the rest myself. I think you misunderstood the title like i did I think Dean is referring to ECUs that map themselves, not mapping it himself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muffleman Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 Yeah Graham A Bells books are good, got a couple I go back to periodically Not a daft idea at all Dean, in fact quite a good one and not beyond the realms of possibility. However, you can map the fuel and ignition on a car in relatively short order, but it's also the peripheral trimmings if you like that make a car well mapped. Acceleration, transition, decceleration, cold start, fuel consumption preferences ie do you like flames or 30mpg on cruise etc etc. All these things could be auto-mapped, but it's telling the ECU what YOU want that would take time. You would need a user friendly front end to the ECU software etc. Whereas at the moment, the user friendly front end is the tuner. The harder part is finding a consistent, qualified, non-bullshitting tuner\mapper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NITO Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 Hi, You've got my old car btw!! (I sold it Dec 2003) The AEM ecu does this to an extent. It can self map the fuelling with the 02 Wideband ECU, you just tell it the afr's you want and it'll fuel to it. I bought an AEM for my Skyline as I wanted to be able to self map, most of the allegedly 'reputable' mapping companies out there are complete tosh, regardless of fancy dynos and I've spent thousands with them to date to be sadly proven right everytime. I've had AEM, HKS F-Con V Pro, GEMS, and the only one I was ever happy with was the Ecutek on Subarus which I mapped myself!! Never tried Motec, that would have been my next port of call on the Skyline if I'd kept it. The AEM on the skyline was poor (read inconsistent) due mainly to the way the skyline Crank Angle Sensor works, but otherwise it was a good ecu and ought to work well on the Supra. The AEM I imagine for the supra ought to be plug and play and have some start up calibrations so they engine will fire up. If you have a decent knock device, I highly recommend the HKS A/F knock amp which I had setup perfectly on my Skyline, not easy to setup though, was brilliant and I would happily map against it. It could also be configured to work with an ECU as it has an output which the ECU could use to pull timing. Boost setup is the easiest to adjust anyway. It helps if you have a good understanding of what you are doing, there's no reason you can't be self taught and a lot of the good mappers are and have way surpassed the tuning companies in terms of results. IMHO, dynos are good for setting up driveability in the maps, but for flat out power you can't beat mapping on a runway. Mapping on the road is just dangerous in this type of car and not worth the risk (I wouldn't advise it although I used to map my Subarus late at night many years ago) really you need two of you. If you can get access to a runway its perfect. To get a car right takes time and adjusting in many different scenarios as an 8 hour session on a dyno will not replicate the different temperature/humidity conditions, the temps will be higher and the car will probably not have sufficient timing at the top end which will result in higher egt's and too rich running in the real world, from my past experience. Regards Nito Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 Not to mention the cost implication. At a guess, the r&d costs for something like that would result in an end product that barely anyone could afford - hell, stand-alones at the moment are pretty damn expensive! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muffleman Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 The AEM on the skyline was poor (read inconsistent) due mainly to the way the skyline Crank Angle Sensor works, On a side note, have heard that the Haltech is good for the Skylines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 I think you misunderstood the title like i did I think Dean is referring to ECUs that map themselves, not mapping it himself lol yeah - I totally skim read the whole thing - in between other things My answer is valid to a different question Self learning ECU's...the most have an auto tune function, but it's not all that sophisticated, you should be mapping it manually first and then setting the auto tune to take care of environmental changes, like air pressure/temps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobSheffield Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 My answer is valid to a different question Absolutely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NITO Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 Cheers Muffleman, My Skylines are all gone now. I would like to make a comeback to Supras again now! My plan is a late Aerotop with a welded in custom cage and 6-speed box but I need to get my house sorted before I can spend too much money on cars! Cheers Nito Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 EFI Technology ecus have the best "self mapping" ability of anything I have come across, but even then it requires a lot of input to refine and sanitise the maps. Inputted lambda following is fairly trivial, Motec have had this for years, but it's really meant to allow trimming in real time against a base map manually inputted, and i believe that it is unwise to expect the ecu to trim a lot, it requires a fairly accurate base, and then it's safe following desired Lambda a bit each side. Ignition self mapping is a lot trickier, as allowing ANY det under boost is very dangerous, and the only other way the ecu knows it's gone "too far" is to input real time cylinder pressures and temps, something still beyond most end users, and expensive even for engine manufacturers. It is possible, and undoubtedly it was used in helping map the original ecu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muffleman Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 My plan is a late Aerotop with a welded in custom cage and 6-speed box but I need to get my house sorted before I can spend too much money on cars! Nice, where abouts in the world are you mate ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NITO Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 Canterbury, Nr Kent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muffleman Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 Not a million miles away, I'm near Gatwick - let us know how the project goes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NITO Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 I need to find a suitable donor aerotop at the right price first! So you bought that crazy Trial Supra did you (avatar pic)? I have some good pics of that, considered buying it from Japan when it came up for sale!! Cheers Nito Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muffleman Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 PM'd, before we get accused of thread hijacks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now