The sh*t just keeps coming

[Bob]

Matt, when your turbo 'blew' did Hyper notice several lumps of ceramic exiting the exhaust and shot-blasting the dyno? If not that rules out j-specs . . .

[Bob]

Sorry to hear of the problems you are having. I have to disagree with no boost controller .. how do you monitor and stabilise the boost during cold spells causing over boost ??... or am i missing the plot here ???....i have always recommended a boost controller and never had a resistor ring installed on any of the cars , is it to allow a base boost level ?? or is it just a cheap method to boost past stock?? iam not having a dig here but can some one enlighten me please ....

 

afaik, it's to stop boost creep due to the small wastegates on stock j-spec turbos. I used a 1.0bar restrictor to be safe, and used a controller to boost to 1.2bar safely.

[b_have]

The metal plate that chris had glued to hole glange where my bov once sat seems sharp and its resting on a ru

 

Whats a ru?

[Bob]

Russian imigrant hiding in the engine bay?

[JohnA]

... I was informed that 1.4 bar on hybrids is fine / safe.

 

...

If it was safe, the manufacturer would have done it already, right?

The moment you bypass fuel cut, you are assuming full responsibility for the life of your turbos.

 

Still, it might be a good idea to have someone knowledgeable verify that indeed you do have a blown turbo. It could be a blown hose, VSV or such, you never know...

[tooquicktostop]

I feel for Matt as he seems to have placed a lot of good faith with the 'pros' as I did, and like myself seems to have limited knowledge of these cars workings (sorry Matt if I am wrong )

So when you take it to a mapper and tell them you want as much BHP as possible (as I did) with a 'safe' map (as I did) you then would and should expect the mappers to inspect the car to check it is all running ok first, and in Matts case there was a big question on the turbos and as a mapper I would have thought that they should have told Matt that IF they are not instructed to take apart and investigate the exact turbos then mapping to 1.4 bar was not 'safe' and could cause a failure ? just my point of view as when these things go wrong the mappers are quick to wash their hands of blame

[Chris Wilson]

I don't quite follow this. About a year ago the car comes to me for a cat removal. I suggest it may have hybrid turbos (which I have never liked or recommended), on the basis of its power delivery and boost capabilities, but without measuring the turbos, and that the boost is high, even with a conventionally sized restrictor ring fitted. I present you with the theory of a potential wastegate problem, or tubo sizing problem. Then it later acquires an E-Manage Blue (which I don't like or recommend)? Then I gather it goes to TurboFit for an engine rebuild? You seem to be saying you even have some thought whether Turbofit replaced the turbos with different units. Then you have it mapped at yet another party, at 1.4 bar, which is a figure I have never suggested as safe or prudent, a year later, and the second turbo fails, and it's now seen by you as my fault...? I have always said 1.2 bar is the maximum I would like to see on any stock based sequential turbo set up, hybrids, J-Spec, or UK / USA spec. I don't like E-Manages, or any signal fudger, I don't like or recommend hybrids, all this is common knowledge and something I speak of regularly. Please re-assess my involvement in this turbo failure, and people in general need to re assess whether modifying a complex and expensive engine is really for them, as even running a stock engine with over 100,000 miles on it at its performance limit is risky, asking an old engine to survive 1.4 bar is plain madness.

[b_have]

I don't quite follow this. About a year ago the car comes to me for a cat removal. I suggest it may have hybrid turbos (which I have never liked or recommended), on the basis of its power delivery and boost capabilities, but without measuring the turbos, and that the boost is high, even with a conventionally sized restrictor ring fitted. I present you with the theory of a potential wastegate problem, or tubo sizing problem. Then it later acquires an E-Manage Blue (which I don't like or recommend)? Then I gather it goes to TurboFit for an engine rebuild? You seem to be saying you even have some thought whether Turbofit replaced the turbos with different units. Then you have it mapped at yet another party, at 1.4 bar, which is a figure I have never suggested as safe or prudent, a year later, and the second turbo fails, and it's now seen by you as my fault...? I have always said 1.2 bar is the maximum I would like to see on any stock based sequential turbo set up, hybrids, J-Spec, or UK / USA spec. I don't like E-Manages, or any signal fudger, I don't like or recommend hybrids, all this is common knowledge and something I speak of regularly. Please re-assess my involvement in this turbo failure, and people in general need to re assess whether modifying a complex and expensive engine is really for them, as even running a stock engine with over 100,000 miles on it at its performance limit is risky, asking an old engine to survive 1.4 bar is plain madness.

 

I'm concerned about the ru abuse.

[Matt H]

I don't quite follow this. About a year ago the car comes to me for a cat removal. I suggest it may have hybrid turbos (which I have never liked or recommended), on the basis of its power delivery and boost capabilities, but without measuring the turbos, and that the boost is high, even with a conventionally sized restrictor ring fitted. I present you with the theory of a potential wastegate problem, or tubo sizing problem. Then it later acquires an E-Manage Blue (which I don't like or recommend)? Then I gather it goes to TurboFit for an engine rebuild? You seem to be saying you even have some thought whether Turbofit replaced the turbos with different units. Then you have it mapped at yet another party, at 1.4 bar, which is a figure I have never suggested as safe or prudent, a year later, and the second turbo fails, and it's now seen by you as my fault...? I have always said 1.2 bar is the maximum I would like to see on any stock based sequential turbo set up, hybrids, J-Spec, or UK / USA spec. I don't like E-Manages, or any signal fudger, I don't like or recommend hybrids, all this is common knowledge and something I speak of regularly. Please re-assess my involvement in this turbo failure, and people in general need to re assess whether modifying a complex and expensive engine is really for them, as even running a stock engine with over 100,000 miles on it at its performance limit is risky, asking an old engine to survive 1.4 bar is plain madness.

 

Chris,

 

After it left you i never had any more work done on my engine, no emanage, no new bov, no boost controller until it blew up. at which point i had the whole thing fixed and was advised that a emanage blue, bigger injectors and a front mount was how i would stop it from blowing up again.

 

the bottom line is you gave it me back in a unfit condition and as a result its blown up. This whole issue with the turbos blowing is nothing to do with you, thats the latest in the saga. the engine blew (not the turbos) at the beginning of this year.

[Matt H]

Whats a ru?

 

should have read rubber

[Matt H]

I don't quite follow this. About a year ago the car comes to me for a cat removal. I suggest it may have hybrid turbos (which I have never liked or recommended), on the basis of its power delivery and boost capabilities, but without measuring the turbos, and that the boost is high, even with a conventionally sized restrictor ring fitted. I present you with the theory of a potential wastegate problem, or tubo sizing problem. Then it later acquires an E-Manage Blue (which I don't like or recommend)? Then I gather it goes to TurboFit for an engine rebuild? You seem to be saying you even have some thought whether Turbofit replaced the turbos with different units. Then you have it mapped at yet another party, at 1.4 bar, which is a figure I have never suggested as safe or prudent, a year later, and the second turbo fails, and it's now seen by you as my fault...? I have always said 1.2 bar is the maximum I would like to see on any stock based sequential turbo set up, hybrids, J-Spec, or UK / USA spec. I don't like E-Manages, or any signal fudger, I don't like or recommend hybrids, all this is common knowledge and something I speak of regularly. Please re-assess my involvement in this turbo failure, and people in general need to re assess whether modifying a complex and expensive engine is really for them, as even running a stock engine with over 100,000 miles on it at its performance limit is risky, asking an old engine to survive 1.4 bar is plain madness.

 

And know after yesterday (not remmebering anything about the job what so ever) your memory has gotten a little better today. you told me that i did have hybrids

[Matt H]

asking an old engine to survive 1.4 bar is plain madness.

 

i never did, it came from you producing that after your decat and restrictor ring. so what you did was madness then

[Matt H]

I don't quite follow this. About a year ago the car comes to me for a cat removal.

 

Wrong again chris, it came to you for fixing as i was experiancing a problem which turned out to be fuel cut. you convinced me to have a first pipe decat while the car was in

[tDR]

Matt, you're really not helping yourself throwing all these accusations around. What do you hope to achieve? Just now I can only see a number of respected members potentially becoming very annoyed and ultimately the end result is the same - YOU have to pay to have YOUR car fixed.

[JustGav]

Out of interest, what time scale are we talking here...

 

It appears Chris had the car and then 12 months later it failed under continous testing... Now 12 months seems to be a LONG time on a car that was unfit from day one. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[RobSheffield]

I suspect im not the only one, but im confused.

 

What was the spec before going to CW and after

 

Before and after TF is pointless as it seems they could have done anything.

 

Hyper just mapped it didnt they, or did they change anything?

 

I must agree with Gazboy, if you went mad on a base map on the emanage after TF then anything could have happened EVEN with hybrids, without them it was only a matter of time.

 

From my understanding (which admittedly could be flawed) its fairly dangerous taking Jspec ceramics to the limits on dyno/mapping, they fail pretty much without warning.

 

A lot of this revolves around your assumption that it has/had hybrids on it and the discussion with Hyper regarding them checking first. Sadly thats a fairly major job to check and would have incurred a large labour cost at a guess.

 

Which Hybrids were on it and where from?

[Nick]

When Chris fitted my restrictor ring many moons ago he told me to keep an eye on the boost, as it will obviously vary a little depending on the time of year.

 

If you noticed it was running at 1.4bar then why didn't you tell him, and allow him to send or fit a different restrictor ring? Afterall each car is slightly different.

 

Whilst I feel for your situation, I can't help but feel that to a certain extent you've made a rod for your own back.

[Matt H]

Might as well just end this here. its getting no where, nothings going to change anything, not that i intened it too, just wanted to get a few things off my chest. It appears that im supposed to know exactly how the supra engine and turbos work therefore its my fault things have gone tits up for me.

[Ric]

how many times is it mentioned on this forum that 1.2 is the safe limit for stock ceramic turbos, UK turbos and hybrids?

 

How many BPU threads are they. yet you see 1.4 bar and don't question it?

[GT5500]

Might as well just end this here. its getting no where, nothings going to change anything, not that i intened it too, just wanted to get a few things off my chest. It appears that im supposed to know exactly how the supra engine and turbos work therefore its my fault things have gone tits up for me.

 

No disrespect and I underastand what you have said about putting your trust in the hands of the pro's but surely common sense tells you that modding a car of this nature is always going to be risky. The reason we can do these mods to our cars is beacuse the manufacturer set the car up to be as risk free as possible, to get more out we are stepping into risky water. I know in an ideal world you should be able to leave your car to the experts but the truth is modding cars is a bit of a black art and even they can't know what one car will do from another. At the end of the day surely you must realise that if you want to mod your car you must accept responsibility if it all goes wrong, after all you are asking a car to do something it wasn't meant to do. I don't think you are so naive as to think that a well modded car can just be driven around without a care in the world and work as reliably as a stock car? I know you keep mentioning that the car should have been set to run safely, well my friend the manufacturer did that for you but you weren't happy with it.

[JohnA]

....It appears that im supposed to know exactly how the supra engine and turbos work therefore its my fault things have gone tits up for me.

Well if you intend to run the engine outside its operating parameters then YES, it does help if you know how things work.

Running at 1.4 bar boost and then complaining that the turbos clapped out is like doing 150 on the M25 and then complaining that the cops are all out to get you.

It was a matter of time when this would happen.

Even 1.2bar is not 'safe' by some people's standards. If you want it to survive another 100K miles then it should stay *stock*

[Alex]

The engine was rebuilt at TF...all bets are off after that.

[Scooter]

 

I take more advice and purchase a thor FCD.. when it arrives i go into my ecu compartment to fit, only to find a maze of wires i really dont want to mess with. i see my HKS FCD there, i notice a dial. ah.. the Thor instructions speak of tweaking the settings from 0 - 12 of the dial... the hks one also has these settings. ummm i think, its worht a try.. so i test the car, first off the car harldy even idels at the lowest setting.. oops mustnt be that one. i try it the other way. things are seeming better, the jolting is coming in as often. i take it one more setting higer, the problem is gone............. i fixed it by the flick of a dial. great.. what did i just get from chris?!

 

 

Its VERY unfortunate that you didn't fit the Thor unit.

 

Quote from Home in March of this year in another FCD thread

 

"Why not just buy the Thor one? It does the job (of raising fuel cut) straight out of the box (1.25bar limit) and is adjustable in case of future needs. No other FCD does this."

 

not posted to point any fingers etc, just as a note to all who may be interested and think this safety feature worth having that they may not currently have.............

[T2 MSW]

Mate I can understand your frustrations but perhaps the way you are going about it could cause some tensions! If my engine blew up and I was given the advice you have by Turbofit and as a result the turbo blows up I would be Pi**ed too but have a read through your posts and image how this is interpreted by others!?

 

I can understand that when you go to a trader you expect to pay for advice as well as a service. In my opinion Turbofit is circumstance really as I suspect they knew the plans for the company long before any of us did so possibly did not care past handing the keys back to you.

 

I can also understand the frustration at Hyper. They advertise as supra specialists and if you ask for a car to be mapped to 1.4 bar alarm bells should start ringing and they should query it - at the end of the day if its what the customer wants its what the customer gets providing you warn them of the consequences.

 

Be interested to know why they cant tell if its hybrids from the parts all over the garage floor??

[Pixelfill]

Mike,

 

suggesting that my second turbo had gone before it got to hyper is ludicrous. the car wouldnt run right and blue smoke would be pooring out of the back. i cant see a blown set of turbos producing at what was its best 1.1 bar of boost, not to mention what proved to be 438 BHP before it blew.

 

Finally, chris informed me that the car was now making less BHP at 1.2 bar than it was at the Hyper rolling road day at 1.1 bar. so something must be very different about the turbos

 

I'm sorry I misunderstood Matt, I presumed that the low boost you had been experienced could have been attributed to a blown turbo - I'm no expert but I assumed that there were situations where a turbo can fail without spewing smoke. For that I apologise if it's clouded the issue.

 

I must confess I'm struggling to see how Chris Wilson's restrictor ring and decat, removal of boost controller can be the cause of your engine blow up. Given that at the Hyper rolling road day - nearly 12mths ago you were only boosting up to 1.1 bar and Chris' work was done before this I can't see the link - I'm sorry.

 

As I understand it your spirited drive home on an empty motorway was the cause of your engine's untimely demise. This was IMO (and a few others) due to running way too lean - not as a direct result of running too much boost but of running the stock JSpec injectors at 100% duty cycle and still not providing enough fuel. Now a combination of cold night air, and a VERY heavy foot have a hellova lot more to do with it than a dodgy restrictor ring.

 

This is my opinion only and may be based in fact or in cloud cuckoo land. I appreciate you are pi$$ed mate and that's understandable, but blaming everyone isn't going to help.

 

 

Mike