Thorin Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 For bigger turbo you *must* change the IC. ...and again I have to disagree, there are several people running singles on an SMIC perfectly fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyb10supra Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 ...and again I have to disagree, there are several people running singles on an SMIC perfectly fine. I agree they run fine, but there may be certain factors that cannot be measured by the owner alone that are considerably different, until these factors are measured and the two tested side by side and in a number of different conditins, I wont be swayed either way, for now im more than happy how my FMIC performs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLicense Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 not this old chestnut again. OK a properly fitted FMIC is going to give you more power than a SMIC. I don't think there is an arguement there. People who have uprated turbo's that have SMIC's, myself included, need not worry. It's not going to mean your car is going to blow up or anything like that. It just means you are not getting the extra HP that you would if you had a ducted FMIC. That's all. What do you think would happen if you had no intercooler at all? Given the choice of a poorly fitted FMIC, with the potential on track overheating issue, or having a correctly fitted SMIC, I would rather have the SMIC. For what it's worth, I get a consistant 20 degrees above ambient IAT's with my SMIC when booting it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorin Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 OK a properly fitted FMIC is going to give you more power than a SMIC. How? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 because its going to cool the air more? :/ if its properly fitted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLicense Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 For an equal quality ducting... simple larger cooling area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolarbag Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 How? There's more of an area to cool the air....isn't that obvious? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorin Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 There's more of an area to cool the air....isn't that obvious? No. It's only going to cool the air down to ambient temps at best. It's the same with uprated radiators, yes if you're hooning round on a track in very high temps then the uprated one may perform better, but in normal conditions it's going to perform the same. I'd be very suprised if an FMIC on a stock turbo based car produced any more power than an SMIC in the same condition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 no because you wouldn't really get ambient temps it would always be over, for example 15oc over ambient with a smic but a FMIC may give 10-13oc over ambient which is better. I'm no scientist so i don't know how much more air you could get into the engine with that lower temp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorin Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 no because you wouldn't really get ambient temps it would always be over, for example 15oc over ambient with a smic but a FMIC may give 10-13oc over ambient which is better. I'm no scientist so i don't know how much more air you could get into the engine with that lower temp Agreed it's going to be more than ambient but I was just using that to help explain better. No matter how well you try to duct the FMIC it's still not going to be as well ducted as the SMIC, you may just find that they would both cool to 15 degrees for example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 Does a larger IC take longer to cool down than a smaller IC? Why do FMICs have to be so deep? What would be better, a single row IC covering the same surface area as the rad or a 4" thick IC covering/blocking half the surface area of the rad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovervi Posted September 7, 2007 Author Share Posted September 7, 2007 not this old chestnut again. . ? soooooooo sorry! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolarbag Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 No matter how well you try to duct the FMIC it's still not going to be as well ducted as the SMIC, you may just find that they would both cool to 15 degrees for example. How do you come to that conclusion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 Does a larger IC take longer to cool down than a smaller IC? Why do FMICs have to be so deep? What would be better, a single row IC covering the same surface area as the rad or a 4" thick IC covering/blocking half the surface area of the rad? Can anyone answer these Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorin Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 How do you come to that conclusion? Oh I don't know, perhaps Toyota designed the car to have an IC in that position in the first place? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 The "can't get lower than ambient temps" argument is sound, but, don't forget intercooler volume and exposure time. (For the purposes of this post, "ambient" means the coolest temps the intercooler can reach, which will always be higher than actual ambient air temps) A bigger intercooler can cool a higher volume of air for a longer period of time than an SMIC. Flow more air mass (BPU, single turbo) and you can have the situation where the air simply isn't exposed to cooling long enough in an SMIC to drop it to ambient temps. Until you flow more air than the stock SMIC can cool to ambient, an FMIC won't give you any more power. Once you get to a hot day/caning the car/BPU boost pressures/single turbo mass flow/combinations thereof, you should see gains. But of course no fricker tests this stuff -Ian PS of course, all ducting being equal between the two IC types, that is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 Oh I don't know, perhaps Toyota designed the car to have an IC in that position in the first place? B'Have has an awesomely well ducted FMIC, it's better than the SMIC as he had no packaging, parts mouldings, cost, or servicing considerations to worry about. He just sealed it all up with some goop that set hard. I wouldn't like to take it out again, but it doesn't leak air -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest yoshi_v300 Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 ...and again I have to disagree, there are several people running singles on an SMIC perfectly fine. On advice from my Jap tuner, if you run a LARGER turbo, you *must* have a larger IC. Otherwise, you will kill your turbo. When I mean larger, I mean something rated 550ps upwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 On advice from my Jap tuner, if you run a LARGER turbo, you *must* have a larger IC. Otherwise, you will kill your turbo. When I mean larger, I mean something rated 550ps upwards. no it would more likely kill the engine due to det i would have thought Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 Does a larger IC take longer to cool down than a smaller IC? Width, no - all it's frontal surface area is exposed to it's own stream of cooling air. Unless the intake apeture is small, that is and then it'd take longer. Depth, yes. Because it's deeper But factor in that there is more metal mass to absorb heat in the first place, so it wouldn't get as hot. Swings and roundabouts. My gut feel is it'd cool down faster even when cooling more air than an SMIC. Who knows what actual testing would show though. Why do FMICs have to be so deep? A combination of reasons. Really thin ones would be structurally iffy, would make a huge pressure drop due to being restrictive. Also there is the idea that if you are getting a big one, why mess about with 1" deep, make it 3" And then there is the simple factor of bigger numbers = sells products. What would be better, a single row IC covering the same surface area as the rad or a 4" thick IC covering/blocking half the surface area of the rad? Christ knows. Find out for us -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 no it would more likely kill the engine due to det i would have thought Yep. Turbo doesn't give a hoot what happens to the air once it comes out, and cooling the air after exiting the turbo clearly can't affect the turbo at all... Probably just misheard. -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorin Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 Until you flow more air than the stock SMIC can cool to ambient, an FMIC won't give you any more power. Once you get to a hot day/caning the car/BPU boost pressures/single turbo mass flow/combinations thereof, you should see gains. But of course no fricker tests this stuff = Ian C explains what I was trying to get at in a much better way. Cheers Ian... Not sure I like the gunk ducting idea though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest yoshi_v300 Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 Yep. Turbo doesn't give a hoot what happens to the air once it comes out, and cooling the air after exiting the turbo clearly can't affect the turbo at all... Probably just misheard. -Ian He told me it would kill the turbo in broken pigeon english, maybe he meant the engine.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 Does a larger IC take longer to cool down than a smaller IC? This would depend on how much heat it has absorbed (and needs to shed eventually!) and how fast it can shed this heat via the airflow available. A typical FMIC will absorb more heat compared to a SMIC (mass is the main factor here) How fast it sheds the heat depends a lot on how fast the car is moving. On a RR or in slow traffic the FMIC might have an edge, as the coolant rad fan will help (or the open bonnet if that's how they do the RR run) In real conditions the SMIC has the advantage of considerably better pressure drop each side of the core and the excellent ducting. (but it's smaller so it has to shed less energy anyway!) Why do FMICs have to be so deep? Because they can't get any wider or taller:innocent: What would be better, a single row IC covering the same surface area as the rad or a 4" thick IC covering/blocking half the surface area of the rad? The latter would have a *much* lower pressure drop As Ian said, until you flow significantly more air through the engine, don't expect any gains from a FMIC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cable Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 so Nissan was wrong when they fitted one to the GTR? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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