rovervi Posted September 6, 2007 Share Posted September 6, 2007 Just read this froma link posted on here a bit ago wanted to know peoples thoughts as i was thinking of FMIC with my TT conversion The fallacy of the FMIC In the process of fitting a 'badass' FMIC the SMIC is ripped out and thrown in the bin. Then comes the painful hacking of standard parts, in order to make it fit. The only place for a FMIC is at the front obviously, right before the aircon rad (condenser). This inevitably leads to the elimination of the upper ducting, sometimes even the lower one. The airflow through the coolant radiator has been compromised, and that is without yet taking into consideration the huge, thick core stuck in front, preheating the air and reducting the pressure difference across the core. Autos have a trasmission rad inside the coolant rad, so that is affected as well. It gets worse. The new FMIC core now has no proper ducting, and the air can (and does) flow easily around it at higher speeds. The airpressure behind the FMIC core is not much lower than that at the front (remember the cardboard experiment? the two other rads act as the cardboard here). So the airflow through the FMIC core is not several times larger than that of a SMIC, appearances can be deceiving. Worse still, the FMIC core sits yet closer to the bumper nosecone, without the benefit of an expansion chamber. At higher speeds it is easier for the air molecules to 'overflow' and spill outside the bumper, creating more drag and depriving the engine bay from much needed cool air. As an extra bonus a few FMICs require the elimination (or crippling) of the active spoiler. The coolant expansion tank has to be relocated usually, swapped for a smaller one tucked away next to the battery perhaps. Power steering pipes may have to be readjusted as well. The FMIC can also be seen as an engine bay preheater, because that is the other side of coin. Not only does it restrict the airflow for everything else, it also preheats what is left of it. What about parts that depend on direct airflow for cooling, like the alternator? How long is that going to live in this hotter environment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edge Posted September 6, 2007 Share Posted September 6, 2007 Alot of people have said that unless your going single then theres no point unless yours is knackered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixelfill Posted September 6, 2007 Share Posted September 6, 2007 One question that has always occurred to me (which is mildly on topic) If you replace the bumper with an aftermarket one - say a DoLuck, which is going to be better? A FMIC with a bigger surface area, or an SMIC with no ducting? Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovervi Posted September 6, 2007 Author Share Posted September 6, 2007 I would be interested to know what some of you technical guys think, if keeping the TT standard would you go with FMIC or SMIC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guigsy Posted September 6, 2007 Share Posted September 6, 2007 im not technical in any way. but At higher speeds it is easier for the air molecules to 'overflow' and spill outside the bumper, creating more drag and depriving the engine bay from much needed cool air. smells like bullshit to me. But i could be wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted September 6, 2007 Share Posted September 6, 2007 Hmmm, that does seem a very biased piece. It wasn't from JohnA's web site was it? It has that JohnA ring to it. (The unnecessary use of the word 'molecules', for example) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyb10supra Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 It wasn't from JohnA's web site was it? It has that JohnA ring to it. (The unnecessary use of the word 'molecules', for example) I was going to say the same Jake, think it is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tDR Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 A FMIC makes a noticeable improvement at BPU levels. It does impede airflow to the rad so you may find you need a higher capacity rad to help keep coolant temps down if you do a lot of high load or track driving. It's a bit like trying to argue the point that hybrids are better than going single... Cheers, Brian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colsoop Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 I bought my car from JIC with a front mount already fitted. it still had both cats in place and always used to hit fuel cut. It was a daily driver and i clocked up over 40k i had no heating issues at all with the fmic. It was a blitz unit by the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyb10supra Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 A FMIC makes a noticeable improvement at BPU levels. It does impede airflow to the rad so you may find you need a higher capacity rad to help keep coolant temps down if you do a lot of high load or track driving. It's a bit like trying to argue the point that hybrids are better than going single... Cheers, Brian. I can vouch for the above, I noticed a good gain, although anything was likely to be better than my knackered stocker As mentioned above is will divert some airflow away from the rad but proper ducting can help out here, I used a dremel, pipe insulation and some duc-tape Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 I think you've all missed the obvious point why we should all have an FMIC. It just looks so much cooler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 Hmmm, that does seem a very biased piece. It wasn't from JohnA's web site was it? It has that JohnA ring to it. (The unnecessary use of the word 'molecules', for example) The whole fella is an unnecessary collection of molecules, but what the heck His site needs a revamp, too:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorin Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 Even a small single is fine on an SMIC, but yeah they don't look as shiney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 BLING is king! If it claims to be a 'performance' item and it makes someone else richer, it HAS to be good eh Airflow just blows in the wind, who cares... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyb10supra Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 I think you've all missed the obvious point why we should all have an FMIC. It just looks so much cooler. Even a small single is fine on an SMIC, but yeah they don't look as shiney I can assure both of you I didnt have it for its shiney properties...same with the stock 17's I have chose to keep on as well I would definatly love to see a test of both in different conditions to lay this to rest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 I can assure both of you I didnt have it for its shiney properties...same with the stock 17's I have chose to keep on as well I would definatly love to see a test of both in different conditions to lay this to rest Sadly it will be the only reason I get one when I fit my Stillen front. That big gaping hole will just look terrible without it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyb10supra Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 Sadly it will be the only reason I get one when I fit my Stillen front. That big gaping hole will just look terrible without it. Pete there really is nout to worry about, you may even be suprised, I certainly was when I fitted mine, pulled way harder when no two comes in, just ensure you do a good ducting job on it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 It's comparing a new stock ducted SMIC (best-case scenario) with a poorly installed badly designed FMIC (worst case scenario) in order to labour home a biased point. Take it as you will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee P Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 FMIC made a big difference on mine at BPU as well but it is a good idea to get the two cooling panels to direct the air through the rad (they also look very bling). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorin Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 Did all the people saying an FMIC made a big difference at BPU have 10 year old SMIC's before? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewOW Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 Maybe all you need is a new SMIC. Considering Supras were designed with an SMIC, I'd thought that would be best for most cases IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyb10supra Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 Did all the people saying an FMIC made a big difference at BPU have 10 year old SMIC's before? I did hence me saying I woud like to see a test carried out Maybe all you need is a new SMIC. Considering Supras were designed with an SMIC, I'd thought that would be best for most cases IMO. Very true but once you start upping the power and cranking up the boost its no longer standard spec, if standard then yes the SMIC will be fine anything over as I said above I would like to see comparisons and data logs for both tested in a number of different trials, ie both tested on a BPU car for example, the same car just to keep it consistent, maybe test one, blat both cars at full throttle for a good 2-3mins and test both cores for heat saturation, pressure drops across the core etc etc you get the idea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorin Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 At BPU or even hybrids I wouldn't consider fitting an FMIC. A well suited small single should generate less heat than stock turbos running out of their efficiency range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colsoop Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 Just to add to what i said earlier, i replaced the front mount for a ducted side mount earlier in the year and there was no discernable difference between the 2 in terms of power delivery or power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest yoshi_v300 Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 Seems side mount IC will go up to 450hp with stock twins. For bigger turbo you *must* change the IC. I had cooling problems with my front mount intercooler on circuit. On the road, no cooling problems. Ducting to force air in or a bigger capacity rad helps reduce these problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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