Bill Prawn Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 Keeping the engine a stock as possible is it possible to get to the magic 500rwhp? If so how much would it cost, what needs doing and who would be best to do the job. Current engine is 343rwhp and 339ft/lb, all that is fitted is a NUR spec r exhaust, a HKS mushroom and a HKS EVC boost controller. Please give answers in plain English:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 Ducted FMIC - GReddy 3 Row 650cc Injectors (High Impedance) T61-T67 Turbo kit (depending on how much boost you want to run - the smaller ones will require more boost to create the same power) Something to control the fueling and Timing. e-Manage or AEM are your best bet. Walbro fuel pump or UK spec fuel pump BOV mounted to a hard pipe Wide Band O2 sensor Fields Harness if you go for the e-Manage RLTC! Also good to have a Field Harness for. That should get you started...then there are mapping costs. Ask the tuners for costs...but I think it could range from 5-9k... But as a bonus you'll be able to sell all the gubbins you remove like the nasty HKS Filter and the stock turbos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 Yep Alex covered it mate Beware salesmen they will be along shortly ........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonball Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 Ditch the mushroom - and keep your turbos for one! Chuck an Apexi under there to start! You wont reach that figure on stock turbos m8 For now Decat (both) VFCD FSE and Walbro Fuel Pump 550 Injectors S-AFC / e-manage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 I assume by stock engine you mean without changing the internals...and you're not including the turbos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 IM(very)HO, there is no way you could make that sort of RWHP with stock tubbys. This also opens up a different can of worms by asking how you would measure the figure? My car has a BL single kit with associated fueling upgrades and yet made just 460 RWHP at a rolling road dyno. The car then made over 600bhp at the hubs on a different dyno system. So which was correct? The second set of figures didnt make the car go any quicker (just the opposite in fact but thats another story) and yet seemed far more impressive. At the end of the day, again IMHO, dynos should be used for tuning and not for getting power figures that enables the owner to gain bragging rights in a pub. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 Originally posted by CJ At the end of the day, again IMHO, dynos should be used for tuning and not for getting power figures that enables the owner to gain bragging rights in a pub. ok but would Mr prawn therefore be better off with max'ing out his stock tubbies and getting say 350 RWHP for £00's or having your 460 RWHP and spending £000's, with potential for continuing teething problems....... ......not a dig in anyway whatsoever just interested in your advice given your experiences to date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 Originally posted by Scooter ......not a dig in anyway whatsoever just interested in your advice given your experiences to date. Singles sound cool...what more reason do you want to switch...long live external wastegates! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Prawn Posted November 18, 2004 Author Share Posted November 18, 2004 Originally posted by Scooter ok but would Mr prawn therefore be better off with max'ing out his stock tubbies and getting say 350 RWHP for £00's So is 350ish about what to expect from stock turbo's:conf: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 But Scooter, you make stock twins sound invincible. The stock sequential system is troublesome, the turbos too small so generate masses of heat which in turn leads to det, you get boost spike because the WG is too small, and they are fragile. Coupled with this the fact that even the smallest single will kick a stock based cars arse, the choice of spending £££ doesn't seem as bad.... Now, if you you want a fast road car, stock based cars are hard to beat. If you want a mental road car, single/parrell twin cars rule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonball Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 Originally posted by Scooter ok but would Mr prawn therefore be better off with max'ing out his stock tubbies and getting say 350 RWHP for £00's or having your 460 RWHP and spending £000's, with potential for continuing teething problems....... Interesting question m8 Wonder what objective answers will come back? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 Originally posted by Scooter ok but would Mr prawn therefore be better off with max'ing out his stock tubbies and getting say 350 RWHP for £00's or having your 460 RWHP and spending £000's, with potential for continuing teething problems....... ......not a dig in anyway whatsoever just interested in your advice given your experiences to date. I am not sure what your question has to do with my quoted statement on dynos? My comments regarding dynos was to highlight the discepancies you can find by going to different ones. I mentioned that as Mr. Prawn seemed interested in obtaining a certain RWHP figure but, in my experience, you may or may not reach this figure according to which dyno you visited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 Originally posted by Bill Prawn So is 350ish about what to expect from stock turbo's:conf: I only came up with this figure as knowing CJ's car and him quoting 460 then i thought it prudent to say 350 for the stock turbo's as undoubtably there is a big difference in performance. My point was this 'big' difference will cost 'big' money, so in the opinion of someone who's actually done it, is it worth it , all things considered. What advice could CJ offer you, away from the 'single' hype..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 My advice would be to think of what you really want out of the car. If you want a fast road car then that is a different kettle of fish to a fast drag car and you shouldn't be swayed by the drag car enthusiasts. You also need to seriously consider the extra expenditure of a good EMS and th mapping thereof. To date, I have spent almost £900 on mapping and it still isnt right! So, was it worth the £000's? Well, TBH, I am undecided. I think I have been unlucky with things going wrong and have yet to really drive the car in anger with it running properly. If you asked me at this moment if it was worth it I would have to say no - but talk to me in a few months time with everything running well and I may have changed my mind. My one regret is that I was too impatient and wanted to jump onto the single wagon ASAP. Hindsight says I should have waited and seen how the EMS panned out and seen others sort out the teething problems before making a decision on which route to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Prawn Posted November 18, 2004 Author Share Posted November 18, 2004 By the way what's up with the mushroom? What 'should' the car use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 HKS mushrooms are stated as having poorer filtration than other Induction kits, which 'can' cause the turbo's to sustain damage and 'could' end up with them failing prematurely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Prawn Posted November 18, 2004 Author Share Posted November 18, 2004 Did a search, had a read, aaarrrgghh i'm scared now:eek: Where can I get an Apexi? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonball Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 Originally posted by Bill Prawn Did a search, had a read, aaarrrgghh i'm scared now:eek: Where can I get an Apexi? mmmm...I wonder? Give me a shout Dude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MONKEYmark Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 i think the twin stock turbos are great, just when you upping power its only a matter of time before they go. im a bit unsure about fitting turbo kit to mine as a lot seem to run worse. hang onto the stock system for as long as you can. build up with supporting mods so you have it all in place if you decide to go with a single/twins i would not touch the hybrids on a value for money option. i would say i am happy with the power of the stock system. just can suffer with bad traction, can only get worse with more power. go with the decat pipes and plenty of cooling mods also fit an uprated fuel pump. and get your fueling checked. 350 to 400 might be all you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminator Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 Originally posted by CJ At the end of the day, again IMHO, dynos should be used for tuning and not for getting power figures that enables the owner to gain bragging rights in a pub. Very true, why waste the money when blagging is free. Ditch the mushroom Bill. A stock air box and panel filter will do. Unless you duct very carefully you suck in hot air and waste all the effort made by the FMIC. JMHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 Guys you are blowing this all out of proportion. The e-manage's can be mapped properly, by Ian Chisholm, for VERY reasonable money. The e-manage is new here, and from what maps I have seen, he and Matt H are probably the only ones who fully understand it, and Chis is the only one offering tuning services. If you are concerned, ask him the questions. Now, there hasn't been a single failure or problem that can be aportioned to a single kit has there? Everything is due to fuelling, the hardware works, so, think where the problems lie. Also, FYI, with a MAP ECU, piggybacked on my VVTi, and a few hours tuning by myself, I have the car running almost as stock ( bit rich still). The E-manage is just as capable, if not more so of doing this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 Ian will be mapping my car...I've seen his work on his own car and that of some others and it's top class! He takes pride in his work and won't give the car back till he's happy, and I think he charges a flat rate....so you can't lose. You do need to have a WB02 and e-manage at the moment but the way he's picked up mapping I expect it wouldn't take long for him to figure out things like the MAP ECU and the AEM... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 I have spoken to the big fella on quite a few occassions and wish I had known of his talents before taking it to the other chaps. Ah well, once my engine bits are fixed, I am sure he will be more than happy to take money off me too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dude Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 Originally posted by Scooter ok but would Mr prawn therefore be better off with max'ing out his stock tubbies and getting say 350 RWHP for £00's or having your 460 RWHP and spending £000's, with potential for continuing teething problems....... ......not a dig in anyway whatsoever just interested in your advice given your experiences to date. Scooter , they are 2 different animals , only the prawny one can answer if its worth doing all that work as its his money , CJ,s car should when its set up properly be very near 500 genuine RWHP,even as it sits its a devastating road car as is Matt H's , in fact ive never driven a single car that isnt , the stock seq. system is now getting too old and unreliable , its difficult to find 2 cars that drive / boost the same . Personally if he can afford it its got to be the single everytime Dude:flame Dev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dude Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 Originally posted by Paul E Interesting question m8 Wonder what objective answers will come back? Bit of a silly statement that dude considering the Prawn has asked how to get 500rwhp and not 'what should i do next' !!!! Dude:flame Dev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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