dude Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 Shit John, I was just saying that in my mind too. Is there anyone running a F-Con V pro on here? all tuned up? Gamer is having a single fitted by TDI on his Soarer at the moment and then tuned to suit , it allready has a F-con fitted , C Doran has an HKS mangement system . How many of the fast skylines run a F-Con i wonder , if i had the money id go for Autronic or Motec but the AEM seems fine to me , its just slated by tuners who cant tune it it seems . Dude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 C'mon guys, lets not turn this thread into an AEM V the world thread as seems to happen on Supraforums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Usmann A Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 Ok thanks for teh info John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dude Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 C'mon guys, lets not turn this thread into an AEM V the world thread as seems to happen on Supraforums. OK, so about these red cars ?????? Dude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dude Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 BTW TDI are circca £85 an hour !!!!! Dude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dude Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 who is ROD BELL ? You may know his brother .......Door!! Dude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 OK, so about these red cars ?????? Dude PMSL It's no wonder they banned you from the forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitelightning Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 TDI. Hmmmmmmm Never again. (and don't ask ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dude Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 PMSL It's no wonder they banned you from the forum They didnt appreciate my sense of humour !!! Dude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonball Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 Just one? After reading the threads on Supraforums there seem to be several well respected guys who have experience with the F-con pro. Unless you dont class the Americans as English speaking I would be interested in this too - only one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syed Shah Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 C'mon guys, lets not turn this thread into an AEM V the world thread as seems to happen on Supraforums. From everything I have read (I am open to correction), it seems all these units share sufficinet capability to do what we require. The weak/strong point is the tuner knowledge available. At the moment, it seems proper tuner knowledge is limited to the Motec/Autronic in the UK. With there being comparitively little for the AEM and V-Pro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 From everything I have read (I am open to correction), it seems all these units share sufficinet capability to do what we require. The weak/strong point is the tuner knowledge available. At the moment, it seems proper tuner knowledge is limited to the Motec/Autronic in the UK. With there being comparitively little for the AEM and V-Pro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MONKEYmark Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 You may know his brother .......Door!! Dude what you on about. it is my older brother. dont talk to him as we had a big fall out. he ran off with my tai bride. i was going to set up MBmotorsports too tuning on the cheap £10 per hour or £150 for 100% happy tune or your money back. AEM does the biz if you know how to tune it. just have to see what can be done with high hp vipers and supras. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 This is a copy of the post made by Ken Henderson, a member of T04R (the big power Supra group). I have the F-CON V-Pro in my car and I think it's the best mid-priced EMS for our cars, bar none. The following is straight from the HKS website, but accurate based upon my own experience: "The HKS F-CON V-Pro is a full featured standalone engine management system that connects as easily as a "piggy-back fuel and timing controller. As modifications to a vehicle are made, the need for fuel and timing adjustments becomes critical for performance and safety. The F-CON V-Pro, with its 32 x 32 resolution for both fuel and timing maps, is the optimal solution. The F-CON V-Pro can control up to eight injectors and D Jetro or L Jetro setups. Injectors can be set to fire as batch, sequentially or staged. The F-CON V-Pro can also read drive by wire vehicles. Programming is done via the HKS Power Writer software, which only Certified HKS Pro Dealers have access to. The HKS Power Writer software for the F-CON V-Pro has some very unique abilities to simplify setup and tuning. Via the vehicle start-up menus most Japanese import cars can be easily started by selecting the vehicles parameters (Make, Model, Engine, etc.). Tuning is simplified due to A/F feedback control, where a target A/F value can be input and the F-CON V-Pro will adjust fuel automatically. Also, full data logging capabilities are built into the F-CON V-Pro Power Writer software. All major vehicle conditions, including speed, rpm, water temperature, intake temperature, timing, boost, injector duty cycle, etc., can logged to the HKS Pro Dealer's computer." As to my own experiences, let me say this up front. I am a "set and forget" kinda guy when it comes to tuning my car. I do not run around with a lap top tuning on my car as the mood or the vehicle's running condition strike me. I've had it in my car for about thirteen months. Prior to the HKS 3.4L stroker and new turbo set-up being installed in my car a short while ago, my car had a TOTAL of 4.5 hours of tuning by SPE about two weeks before Vegas 2K3 which included my 801 whp run, the best I had done prior to installing my new set-up. The tuning remained untouched until the new set-up was installed. The car has always started, idles smoothly at 1050 (I have 272 cams and head work), never stalls at stoplights, never fails to start, is unaffected by changes in weather, temps or elevation or traffic conditions and this has been the case since its initial installation. Everything works as it should. The V-Pro can be used as a standalone or in concert with the factory ECU, whatever the user desires. For a full street car like mine, I think using it in conjunction with the factory ECU is the hot ticket. As noted above, it can drive up to eight injectors, a good thing as we found that my six 1000 cc injectors were running out of fuel at 2.18 bar and 1031 whp. We added two additional 1000 cc injectors (1333 cc/min/cylinder) which are driven full-time and my fuel capacity issues were over just like that. I just drove 600-miles round-trip to and from Vegas 2K4. While there, I spent a lot of time with Mark Conte (LYTLdiablo) and Olivier Caza, although Mark spent more time in my car going back and forth to the track. Hopefully, if he sees this thread, he will pipe in and give his unbiased input based on his limited Vegas experience. After the Crazy 8 dyno challenge, I received many, many inquiries from Supra owners regarding the V-Pro. They had observed the car on the dyno, listened to the clean, smooth and sharp pulls and watched while the car idled on the dyno for some time while the technical difficulties with the dyno were diagnosed and fixed. Those of you familiar with Japanese high performance magazines know that the F-CON V-Pro is the EMS of choice by virtually all big-name Japanese tuners. You also know that Japanese tuners and manufacturers have certain affiliations. By that I mean you will never see a JUN car, for instance, or a Top Secret car for that matter, with an HKS turbo or many other HKS hard parts. These two companies use Trust/GReddy parts almost exclusively and their own parts as well. The one true exception to all this is engine management and, when it comes to this, virtually 100% of the time, its the F-CON V-Pro. Its been on the Japanese home market since 1996, so it has seen a lot of development. Many are put off by the fact you have to go to an HKS Pro Dealer and that they can't play with the software like you can with other systems. This, I think, is a red herring because the vast majority of users of other systems must hire professional tuners anyway to get their cars to run right. Very few of us have the time, ability, inclination and patience to program the EMS for our cars. When this supposed inconvenience is tempered by reality for most EMSs worth having in our cars, the V-Pro begins to look better and better, IMO. Hope this helps and good luck with your tuning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 Rod Bell is a pal of mine, he doesn't map HKS ecus. He does map Apexi ones though. IMO, for what it's worth, just find a mapper you trust, can afford, and who you believe is competent, and buy the ecu THEY recommend. The majority of quality, new, modern ECU's are fairly similar for the purposes of road car engines, their mappers sadly do not fall into the same bracket Again, for what it's worth, I'd choose from between, in no particular order for a particular purpose, Motec, MBE, DTA, Zytek, EFI Technology or Apexi. I have no experience whatsoever of AEM, as far as i know it's a n old GEMS design, and may be *rap or bloody fantastic, I just don't know. I have personal experience of all the others though and all of them are good / excellent for their price brackets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamer Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 From the TDI site: Another big project for us- Mr Jennion's 'big twin' supra literally had no expense spared in order to create something a little more special. Everything from the Brembo front and rear brakes, Blitz wheels, HKS Hiper Damper suspension, TDI 3.2 litre all-steel stroker kit, HKS F-Con Pro management running dual pumps, lines, filters and 1000cc injectors to the lag-reducing 4 bottle nitrous setup has been carefully assembled and setup. This car is nothing short of astounding and we are proud to have been the builders of this monster car. At the point of completion we had yet to finalise the instalment of our own hub mounted dyno so the car was taken to Abbey Motorsport along with our own mapper to be set up. The end result was 706lb/ft and 665bhp at the hubs, or around 811lb/ft and 765bhp at the flywheel at 1.6~1.7 bar boost. Bear in mind this was with a rev limit of 7500rpm and you can see how devastating a road car this is. The nitrous was used only to reduce lag but even without it the torque curve is near vertical from 3000 to 4000rpm. The dyno plot can be found here That above was taken from this page: http://www.tdi-plc.com/gallery.html in thier gallery. I do not know if those figures above will impress any of you but I think it demonstrates some knowledge of what they are doing... F-Con S 'piggy-back' fuel and ignition timing computer. Up until now, the F-Con (and many other ECU's) were only able to cope with manual transmissions as the Supra automatic gearbox is also hooked up to the ECU. However, we are now able to fit and map F-Con's to suit automatics as well as the regular manual versions. This breakthrough, purely engineered and researched by TDI alone, has not only opened up the availabilty of serious power hikes for automatic Supras, but will also allow us to fine tune the fuelling and ignition map of any automatic Supra; something which has always been difficult to do. Hugely overdue and eagerly awaited, the F-Con S, with our fitting and mapping abilities has been a great success bearing in mind the sheer number of automatic Vs manual Supras there are around Cost of above: £840.00 + mapping time @ £76.00 per hour That above was taken from their Supra TT upgrade page: http://www.tdi-plc.com/toyota_supraMk4.html Don't get me wrong, I am not saying they are the best, that I could not tell you, all I am saying is they seem to know what they are doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dude Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 Phone Leon Green and ask him about his experiences with them mapping his car !!!!!!! Dude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamer Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 I agree with you Dude, they are bloody expensive. Apart from that though I have never had any issues with my car at all after they installed and mapped my unit. It has been there 2 times for that so far. (first time for install and map and then after I upgraded my FMIC/Injectors) Both times the car has run fine for me afterwards. I can only relay my experience with them and like I said apart from the prices I cannot complain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dude Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 I agree with you Dude, they are bloody expensive. Apart from that though I have never had any issues with my car at all after they installed and mapped my unit. It has been there 2 times for that so far. (first time for install and map and then after I upgraded my FMIC/Injectors) Both times the car has run fine for me afterwards. I can only relay my experience with them and like I said apart from the prices I cannot complain. After what they charged you to fit you de-cat pipe dude i would imagine you are a valued customer !!!! Dude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitelightning Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 They say they charge so much - because its a specialist market and they dont want boy racers but higher clients. My experience: They left 3 bolts loosely threaded on my manifold, another missing. The HKS Wastegate was hanging off and pissing air. My NOS system never worked due to wiring issues unsolved. They were rude by email as they just dont have the trained staff to deal with enquiries. Their techies can't "relate" to non techies in a civil maner and assume everyone else is a "no-brainer". Despite the time it has taken to fix my new car, I rate Dude many classes above them. [Only wish we had 50cc of adrenalin and 400 volts to jump start him ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonball Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 Cant comment on their abilities - but can we leave TDI pro's and con's and get back to the FCon? (or this will fly off at another tangent) Taken Chris' comments on board I am still interested in the 'one and only' that can tune them then! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 [Only wish we had 50cc of adrenalin and 400 volts to jump start him ] Been there, done that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamer Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 After what they charged you to fit you de-cat pipe dude i would imagine you are a valued customer !!!! Hehe, yeah but that was also fitted at the same time as the F-con and an EVC 5 boost controller... I have never had them "talk down" to me and Mark has always been happy to answer any questions that I pose to him. Maybe I have been lucky with my dealings with them so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 Cant comment on their abilities - but can we leave TDI pro's and con's and get back to the FCon? (or this will fly off at another tangent) Taken Chris' comments on board I am still interested in the 'one and only' that can tune them then! I know ho he is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitelightning Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 Well, WL had an F Con 5 Pro, it was locked by HKS, even TDI could not get in it. So to get past 650bhp, WL would have needed a new computer. TDI are auth HKS tuners, theres a piece of software only given to auth tuners and I could not get my hands on it. So I settled for what I had, but the system was pretty much invisible to me as I didnt have to play with it. I was told its good, don't touch it. (Being the muppet that I am). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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