Bill Prawn Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 Car going for a service next week. What oil and filter would you recommend? 1993 J-Spec tt. Thanks in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul mac Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 good quality 5w-40 fully synthetic (i use halfords) and lexus/toyota oil filter 90915-20004, if you need more info do a search as this subject has been absolutely hammered Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oilman Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 Hmm, Halfords "good quality" synthetic. I'm afraid not, it's not synthetic at all, just a "hydrocracked" mineral oil. Please read and you'll understand. A word of caution – You get what you pay for! Below is an article written by John Rowland, Silkolene/Fuchs Chief R & D Chemist for 40 years. Quote: Costs of synthetics vary considerably. The most expensive are the “Ester” types originally only used in jet engines. These cost 6 to 10 times more than high quality mineral oils. The cheapest synthetics are not really synthetic at all, from a chemists point of view. These are in fact specially refined light viscosity mineral oils known as “hydrocracked”. These have some advantages over equivalent mineral oils, particularly in lower viscosity motor oils such as 5w-30 or other oils with a low “W” rating such as 5w-50 etc and they cost about 1.5 times more than good quality mineral fractions. We use several different grades of this base oil, where appropriate. This is the “synthetic” which is always used in cheap oils that are labelled “synthetic”. Yes it’s a cruel world, you get what you pay for! Now, you may ask, why are these special mineral oils called “synthetic”? Well, it was all sorted in a legal battle that took place in the USA about ten years ago. Sound reasons (including evidence from a Nobel Prize winning chemist) were disregarded and the final ruling was that certain mineral bases that had undergone extra chemical treatments could be called “synthetic”. Needless to say, the marketing executives wet their knickers with pure delight! They realised that this meant, and still does, that the critical buzz-word “synthetic” could be printed on a can of cheap oil provided that the contents included a few percent of “hydrocracked” mineral oil, at a cost of quite literally a few pence. So, the chemistry of “synthetics” is complex and so is the politics! The economics are very simple. If you like the look of a smart well-marketed can with “synthetic” printed on it, fair enough, it will not cost you a lot; and now you know why this is the case. But, if you drive a high performance car, and you intend to keep it for several years, and maybe do the odd “track day”, then you need a genuine Ester/PAO (Poly Alpha Olefin) synthetic oil. This oil costs more money to buy, because it costs us a lot of money to make, very simply, you always get what you pay for! Unquote: Cheers Simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffvalenti Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 Whilst completely agreeing in principal with what Simon says, if you're talking about a 10 year old road car, that was specified by the factory to use 10w-30 mineral oil. A good quality hydrocracked (even Halfords) if changed regularly (3-6000 miles) will be more than sufficient. If, however you're doing track days, or regular 1/4 mile runs, a better quality oil (true synthetic) would be advisable. Obviously if you're a pro racer then its a no brainer It just amuses me, to see all these posts suggesting that hardly stressed road cars need race quality oil. No names, its been happening for years My 2p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oilman Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 Sorry, disagree, it's all about better protection. Synthetics are better and will benefit most cars, especially high performance ones. At the end of the day, it's your choice and your car. Cheers Simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbourner Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 I just use Mobil1 and change every 3000 miles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffvalenti Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 Originally posted by oilman Sorry, disagree, it's all about better protection. I didn't really expect you to agree, after all you sell the stuff The protection is better, yes, but when is it really noticeable, after 100k, 200k, 300k. Surely the most important time was when the car(s) were new, not 10 years old, after we've got our hands on them. By then most of the damage has already been done. Originally posted by oilman Synthetics are better and will benefit most cars, especially high performance ones. You won't get an arguement over that one, they are better! Its just that sometimes its a bit like locking the stable door once the horse has bolted Originally posted by oilman At the end of the day, it's your choice and your car. Very true, but also the use you put your car to. If its taking hard abuse then by all means stick the best that money can buy in it. But if its pootling around locally with the occasional highish speed run up the motorway, then (no offence Trev) Mobil 1 every 3000 miles is just overkill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbourner Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 Originally posted by geoffvalenti Very true, but also the use you put your car to. If its taking hard abuse then by all means stick the best that money can buy in it. But if its pootling around locally with the occasional highish speed run up the motorway, then (no offence Trev) Mobil 1 every 3000 miles is just overkill None taken, it's cheap enough that I can do it that often, and makes me feel better because the oil's changed as soon as it starts going brown (i.e. carbon build up i.e. not as lubrcative [is that a word?] i.e. bad for engine.). Doesn't really matter if it's necessary or not at least it's not harming the engine any more. It's gotta be better than changing every 5000 miles! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffvalenti Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 I can see your point and, no, you won't do it any harm by "over changing" the oil. If I had a car from new and intended to keep it, I'd probably do the same! The point is, when its done 50k miles plus, of maybe irregular, undocumented oil changes, wrapping it up in cotton wool is, IMHO, a bit too late. Even to attain the holy grail, for some, of FTSH, only demands a change of mineral oil every 9000 miles. I'm not really disagreeing with anybody on this thread, just saying that it's maybe another myth, that changing the oil 3 times more often than the service schedule demands, with oil 2-3 times as expensive as the manufacturer recommends, and not beginning this regime until the car has done 50-70k miles is going to substantially prolong the life of the engine. Its not going to do any harm, but maybe your money could be better spent on the car in other directions. Just a thought Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul mac Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 Originally posted by oilman Hmm, Halfords "good quality" synthetic. Please read and you'll understand. A word of caution – You get what you pay for! Yes indeed my oil selling friend and halfords is "cheap" at £27 a pop for 5 litres, before i used halfords i did some home work, the halfords oil complys to the following international standards API SL CF ACEA A3 B3 B4, i then looked at silkolene which i paid £37 for, i do not have the standards to hand but when i did a search the silkolene to the best of my memory complyed with fewer standards and the ones it did conform to were old standards, so i came to the conclusion that either the silkolene was not as good or the company could not be arsed to update its standards on the side of the can, which is all i can judge it on, therefore i went with the "cheaper" oil which exceeds BMW, PORSCHE, MERCEDES, VW standards, the key word here is EXCEEDS, you also mention that the oil is produced from largely mineral stock, if so surely halfords would be in breach of trading standards by printing FULLY SYNTHETIC on the side of the can, lastly a good reason for the halfords being cheaper is surely market forces, how many litres of oil do you think halfords shifts compared to a "niche" supplier like silkolene, i have no axe to grind, i do not sell oil i am just giving people on the BBS my advice, i have owned a TT supra for 3.5 years as a daily driver (how long have you had one oilman) it has in excess of 100,000 miles on the odo, has the oil changed every 3-4 k and a new lexus oil filter, and it has had no mechanical engine problems and still go'es like f**k on original turbos, i think people can make up their own mind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitesupraboy2 Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 Originally posted by paul mac [you also mention that the oil is produced from largely mineral stock, if so surely halfords would be in breach of trading standards by printing FULLY SYNTHETIC on the side of the can, Just like Meat on the shelfs is all meat and not Corn in it and not 40% water, right Also all pork sausages are all Pork in the them and not mostly other crap. Regulations are not clear to us, i bet there is guidlines and exceptions to room. Each regualtion will probably be bout 2 pages long. I hope my point has come across. Also what are they stricter on, food or car oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffvalenti Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 Originally posted by whitesupraboy2 Also what are they stricter on, food or car oil. Unfortunately, after all of the recent cock ups with BSE, Salmonella and Foot & Mouth, in this mixed up society, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if it was car oil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitesupraboy2 Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 Originally posted by geoffvalenti Unfortunately, after all of the recent cock ups with BSE, Salmonella and Foot & Mouth, in this mixed up society, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if it was car oil Worst thing bout this statement is at moment how the hell can i disagree!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul mac Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 Originally posted by whitesupraboy2 Just like Meat on the shelfs is all meat and not Corn in it and not 40% water, right Also all pork sausages are all Pork in the them and not mostly other crap. Regulations are not clear to us, i bet there is guidlines and exceptions to room. Each regualtion will probably be bout 2 pages long. I hope my point has come across. Also what are they stricter on, food or car oil. sorry fella but i strongly dissagree, i have worked with hydraualics for seventeen years, so know a bit about oils, mineral stock and synthetic stock ARE entirely different, like chalk and cheese and even if you were correct would mercedes, porsche, VW and BMW tolerate having there standard met, printed on the front of the can, i really doubt that, do a google on the standards i have listed i think you will be surprised, just because the latest designer named oil is expensive dont just assume it must be good compared to crap sounding halfords, to me the standard printed on the side of the can is all important not the corporate image of the company Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbourner Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 Originally posted by whitesupraboy2 Also what are they stricter on, food or car oil. Well seeing as hospitals including operating theatres are now known as being quite dirty places, yet HDDs are created and repaired in class 100 clean rooms and CPUs are made in class 10 clean rooms - I wouldn't like to comment on human vs technology!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminator Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 Bloody hell all Bill did was ask for a bit of advice. There seems to be a range of oils that people use on this site. A large number us Valvoline. The general consensus is use a good quality fully synthetic. You need an oil that can cope with the high temperatures in a turbo charged engine. I have been down the route of 2.5-3K changes using Valvilone for four years. The information give by oil man was compelling so I have gone for Silkoline this time and will check the oil every 250 once past 2.5K and see how it goes. So far it is performing well and is maintaining its red colour well. As for filters the stock MKIV filter is readily available, the Lexus filter mentioned is a good filter, using the same filter medium just more of it. You will need slightly more oil on the refill due to the increase size of the filter. I have used both, just depends what the Toyota dealer has in stock. I have not noticed any racing teams queuing up at Halfords for oil lately BTW MacDonald sell a lot of burgers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul mac Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 ooo you halfords snob, i'll say it for the third time, compare the standards printed on the side of the can (if Mr Halford is reading this, can i have my free 20 litres now-please) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul mac Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 wow really got my teeth into this one now, just done a search on VALVOLINE and what do you know it is API SJ rated whereas HALFORDS is API SL rated, i am really sorry to say that API SL is the newer and higher rated standard, i rest my case your honour, you Valvoline boys must be gutted, form an orderly queue at Halfords tommorow ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitesupraboy2 Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 i bet the valvoline lasts better though. and surely there is different ways to get too these grades Like BP ultimate and Shell optimax are close in same RON or watever but one uses cleaning adjents and addjetives (i know i cant spell) and one is filter better when being made so does nto have added ingredients Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminator Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 As synthetic blended mineral oils meet API SL I guess the standard is pretty low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul mac Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 Originally posted by whitesupraboy2 i bet the valvoline lasts better though. and surely there is different ways to get too these grades unbelievable, give it up fellas, why will valvoline last better cos the name sounds cool and you get a flash sticker with every can, sorry termy but if SL is low it aint as low as SJ thats on the side of your cooooool valvosilkowottsitline do the google and you'll see how low, at least i'me basing my argument on facts not "i bet" or "probably", right thats it i'me finished with this thread and i'me taking my football home cos you boyz is playin rough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Prawn Posted November 10, 2004 Author Share Posted November 10, 2004 Right, thanks for the 'advice'. I have got a filter £7.36 +vat. 5 litres of Silkolene Pro S. F.O.C It pays to know people. Other than that all fully synthetic oils are mineral based, as far as I am aware. And Halfords was the cheapest, but only by a couple of quid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbourner Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 Originally posted by paul mac wow really got my teeth into this one now, just done a search on VALVOLINE and what do you know it is API SJ rated whereas HALFORDS is API SL rated, i am really sorry to say that API SL is the newer and higher rated standard, i rest my case your honour, you Valvoline boys must be gutted, form an orderly queue at Halfords tommorow ! Newer ratings are usually lower, because better technology causes a drop in testing specifications to account for it. My boss has reduced the testing spec I work to recently because of a particular drive manufacturer failing the standard - and we can't lose their business so we reduce OUR spec to cater for them!!!! I don't know the facts and I'm not gonna bother finding out, so sorry if this isn't the case here, I'm just saying don't blindly accept the ratings as meaningful!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 Originally posted by tbourner I'm just saying don't blindly accept the ratings as meaningful!! so we blindly accept others opinions instead? Bottom line is, stock sup's make it to 200+k miles on 'whatever toyota dealers use' oil (unlikely to be swanky real synthetic stuff is it!) and minimum 4.5k mile intervals. So synthetic's may well be better just not necessary, IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suprarob Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 High oil man Is valoline a good oil compared to the silcoline pro s I have an oil change coming up Trying to make up my mind what to use and also is there any problems with swapping from one oil to another cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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