JohnA Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 I've quietly followed here Slowdog's rise and fall, Lui Cypher go from zero to hero, TF's darling status evaporate. ...The forum hypeth, the forum taketh away... This is an easy mistake to make, all the time thinking that we are being logical and rational (but we're not!) We only publicise (or remember) the particularly good or bad examples, the exceptions. The masses of mediocre or good jobs go unnoticed, so our mental statistics are totally incorrect. Without a proper tabulation of ALL jobs involved it is impossible to have an unbiased opinion, but even the office of fair trade won't have enough data on this. ...so we fall for the hype due to the good old Availability Error. Life moves on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul_SWZ Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 Blimey i go away for 3 weeks and this is what happens ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminator Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 I've quietly followed here Slowdog's rise and fall, Lui Cypher go from zero to hero, TF's darling status evaporate. ...The forum hypeth, the forum taketh away... Very true, and the list is longer if you go back further. It is amazing how those with very little if any technical knowledge, can build up a so called traders status. If the company's PR machine gets into gear as it did in TF's case, the trader becomes the next best thing to sliced bread. Mistakes were spotted on pics taken of engine bays long ago, but any criticism was disregarded as part of some anti movement against the trader who at the time could do no wrong I remember several cases form my earlier in the forum's history, where box shifters have developed a certain status among members. Have once establish a good reputation, the trader branches out in to garage/servicing work. Unfortunately due to the "trader's lack of technical knowledge, they people they empployed were not good enough, and some way down the line, por workman ship becomes apparent. In their wake they leave a trail of dissatisfied customers many £ worse of for the contact with the original box shifter. One thing is common in all these cases, the sign were seen long before the shit hit the fan. Those with the knowledge tried to warn, but got shot down by those who really are not qualified to do so. As result some serious wallet surgery was carried out on the unsuspecting. We are talking big money here. What distresses me most is the people making the anti noises are accused of picking on the trader, when what they were trying to do is protect members of the club. This one of the main reasons why we have lost some really brilliant minds from the forum be cause their advice fell on deaf ears. This is a loss to us all. Perhaps in the future we should look at two levels of trader status. One as just a trader of parts, and another as a Tuner/Trader, one who has the proven ability to work on cars. This would stop box shifters from elevating them selves to Tuners status just on the back of a fan base of satisfied customers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SupraPL Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 Really....I never thought they were that pricey 77hrs @ £50.00 per hour plus VAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul_SWZ Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 77hrs @ £50.00 per hour plus VAT I need to put my rate up LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uzthedentist Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 Uz .. if I've spent ££££'s on my car having something done to it .. I then go on the forum and understandably as I'm pleased as punch ... then do alot of tuner flag waving ... When it does go Pete Tong - say a month later ... What do you think the chances of me swallowing some humble pie and admitting pubically on the forum that I made an error in judgement of my choice of tuner ? mate if anything did go wrong a month later the first port of call would be to go back to the tuner. If it still wasnt resolved then make it public. The main issue with Turbofit is that they were at best negligent and at worst dangerous. My tuning knowledge peaks at BPU/Suspension/Brakes and thats as far as I have gone with all my cars (300zx/GT4/Soarer/Supra) I wouldnt go any further because i wouldnt know if a good job has been done or not. However, if I did, I would go to the tuner with the fastest car in that field. I went to Turbofit because i live in milton keynes and they were literally on my doorstep. Things that happened on my car were pretty minor like they damaged my power steering valve and claimed it was 'worn' and chaged my spark plugs but didnt note my cambelt was shot and needed replacing. However, how do you deal with something like that? NOT TO GIVE THEM ANY MORE BUSINESS. It seems like problems had happened quite a few times with other people that have used them so its a lesson learnt to not pick people on your doorstep because they may not be the best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 I am truley gutted to be reading this i have used turbofit from the start... ...They did my single conversion too only a few months back... ...i had a small oil leak, they found that the oil feed to the turbo was leaking... ... one of the injector rubbers had perrished... ...Greg refused to take payment. What a top bloke... Well seeing as it was his install that caused those problems I'd hope not! Now I'm not picking on jon here but it's a great example - some people just can't see past their eyelids even now. TF aren't heroes for fixing this, it's their shonky install in the first place! They should fix it as a matter of course or better yet, not have the issue at all It can't be that hard to join the "they fitted the stuff" event to the "that same stuff has gone wrong" event? That seemed to be the biggest problem here. Yeah, OK, they pulled out the stops now and again to sort out a disaster but people couldn't see past that to go "hang on - you caused the damn disaster in the first place!". I've seen so many threads like that with TF getting bigged up for chrissake even though they caused the initial problem the first time around. Of course, I didn't dare point this out as I'd just get jumped on... I hate people getting ripped off via their car. It really makes me angry. Having seen all the people now posting up (and read about all the ones that aren't being publically discussed) about how much money they have lost and are still at square one or even square -5, with their ruined deathtrap Supras, I hope that all the fanboi's that jumped on Matt Harwood, me, Alex, and even drove Terry mostly off the forum when we tried to highlight the disaster that was ToyotaTom's car are really really proud of themselves. Way to go team. Pride yourselves in being blinded by smooth talking and a biscuit. Mind you some of you used Turbofit so there is an irony in there, eh? How's your cranks? how's your diffs? Post 11 is where the bullshit starts flying, post 22 is where Terry steps in, Post 42 is where the blinkers come on and the afterburners are lit. Mkirby, Suprastar 3000, Gamer, and Ian W all give us a bit of a kicking, Suprastar3000 the most, and what's this? Cripes I then see JamieP told us off for "getting off-topic" and then gave the classic line "here comes Terry's pets" (post 166). Yes, we were such bad people giving a hard time over his bullshit weren't we Jamie. Oh no wait, didn't he get booted off for being shit and ruining cars? Weren't you a staunch defender of turbofit despite your engine, turbo, and diff letting go time and time again? (post 176 is good) Where are they now? Shut up shop on the qt and let down many many customers... Hmmmm. Well done mate. Have a biscuit. -Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 It's rather sad state of affairs, I just hope we don't see another aftermath of unresolved outstanding issues and hard done to members. The getting shot down thing is a major thing. Most technical or long standing members on here didn't go there. There's a clue. How about the quality of workmanship on the demo car? There's another clue. Wow, im really shocked to here this. I took my car 200 miles to them when it went tits up as i was under the impression they were the best. All the whisperings and talking that go on behind the scenes of the club is astounding. Not everyone is privy to such back chatter so have to make their own mind up from what is posted on the forum. Obviously there could be serious legal implications from gossip so it has to be restrained, but it does mean the whole picture isn't shown on the face of the club. An official club trader must really be something of a no brainer recommendation to a newbie. I do sympathise with the mods on how to handle such a difficult situation. The number of times I heard of problems from members with a sentence to be finished with "but they're really nice people and did everything they could" is unreal...and nobody wanted to publicly say anything. I would never abuse anyones trust and confidence in what I've been told plus it's not my place to repeat anything I've heard. I'm sure it's just a drop in the ocean though. Yes they may have done some good work on BPU etc, but any half decent tyre and exhaust place can do that. Quality aside, TF did provide some excellent social gathers, That's called marketing. Something they must be commended on as I too had the impression they were quite cheap...yet members seem to be paying top dollar? Perhaps some great up-selling going on there? I need to employ more sales people like this. Joe: From my previous experience of seeing businesses go, do not be suckered in by any verbal agreements. Think of yourself only. There's no way I would've paid up without seeing the car myself. It would've been well worth the trip for peace of mind to know it was sorted properly and hand over the payment in person. Once that company is dissolved there's no going back and I've seen people stall for time until this point has gone before. I'd also be very nervous given the tight relationship between TF and KR, but that's your decision. KR...There's another trader where people whisper on how bad work has been done, rejected and re-done, and then discounted....To be in keeping with the whole cloak and dagger forum mentality maybe I shouldn't have said that. I don't intend this post to be 'sticking the boot' in (as I expect many will do over the next few days) but a constructive look at the club/trader relationships. After saying all that...why should I care? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 The times I've had to endure Matt ranting and raving at home over people that can't see the wood for the trees. Whenever I've asked him why he doesn't tell people EVERYTHING he's seen/rectified he has just asked what would be the point-once the PR machine is in action all hope is lost. The thing I have never got is that I have witnessed appalling workmanship in our workshop with other club members looking on, shaking their heads in disbelief whilst Matt tries to figure out wtf they have done because it's been so bad-then the same club members book their cars in to have work done with Turbo Fit. Chantelle (Not necessarily Matt's opinion ) Edit-Of course I forgot, they make tea and give you food- it may have cost you thousands but hey-a good day out nonetheless! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamer Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 I was not giving you guys a kicking, I simply stated that was not going to cave in and admit anything even though the facts were there for all to see. At the end of the day it was only opinion and nothing more. He did not have anything to back it up with. I agreed with what you were all saying it just became silly after a certain point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michel lane Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 I totally agree with Ian C in this matter, but as he says you always get the dipsticks that get sucked into the trap of biscuits and tea to praise the "quality" of work from these "cowboys", and because they dont really know what they are talking about they start shouting down the people that have been on the board for many years, done it , been there, didnt work. what does experiance count on this board for me, from talking to experianced members i achived 120,000 miles on 1 engine running 600hp....for 4 years. On the other note , it does not matter what you say or advise people on here , they end up doing it there way because they were told from a friend its the right way .....especially on fueling !!!! i hate talking to people about this subject because they think after reading all the threads they convince themselves they are right and you are wrong.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 .especially on fueling !!!! i hate talking to people about this subject because they think after reading all the threads they convince themselves they are right and you are wrong.... This is of course the nature of the Internet. A fantastic place for people to express freedom of opinion regardless of accuracy. Take Wikipedia as a prime example. Just because it's written doesn't mean it's correct. People tend to forget that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian R Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 I hope with reference to posts on the forum I am not seen as one who has "defended" Turbofit. I have just purely stated facts no bullshit just facts. I stand by what I have said in the past and sometimes people have commented that can not be done it won't work. The T60 single install was poor in many peoples view your engine will blow up blah blah blah. Well a hammering round Brunters to the Nurburgring and back with lots of hard laps 20k miles later it was still going strong. Yes that was on stock 440's and a AVCR (but it will blow up !!!!) Nope it won't and no it didn't. Perhaps I was lucky I was one if the first to have the T60 done and moved to a T88 as I was after more power, now I can't comment on this install yet and the proof will be in the eating but the person who mapped it didn't raise any issues and so far all appears aok. So as said based on facts and nothing else. Some have you may know that my engine was blown up when being mapped by a mapper (less said the better) and after listening too TF reasons and the mappers excuses it came to the conclusion that the mapper was responsible. However as TF had chosen the mapper they replaced my engine at no cost to myself. So all in all afaik TF have done me no wrong and was always happy with the service. Sam and Greg were always helpful and they have always done a good job for me. I do think the mapper may have had alterior motives tho' and TF going out of business may be of benefit to him. I believe in karma so what comes around goes around Eh Dan..... Maybe my attitude may change a little when I have my T88 build checked over but as said I have not commented on the quality of that build yet all I can say is at the moment I am happy. But no doubt I present you all with the facts on it as time goes by. I appreciate some of you may have issues with TF but from my own personal experience if they happen to read this I wish Sam Greg all the best for the future.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MONKEYmark Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 such a shame to lose some great members. terry matt h migster eyefi terminator ian c is still around and is a sound bloke would trust him or any of above to do work on my car.u also know cw will do a top notch job on your car too.i have this thing in my head i would find it hard to trust any garage again. such a shame to see long standing members slowly dissapear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 Having read that thread that IanC linked to I'm not surprised that some of those same people are wishing Sam/Greg/Turbo-Flit (see what I did there? Genius) all the best for the future! Ho hum...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Private Pile Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 Hi guys, Although I haven't read every single thread/comment regarding Turbofit of late, I thought, having been involved with TF since my Supra ownership began exactly a year ago that I should say a few words... TF became a popular choice for many due to the friendly, unselfish and helpfull characters of Sam and Greg. From day one, I was regulary contacted with the status of my car mods and was always made very welcome when visiting on social calls. When my car's engine blew up after just 6 weeks of ownership (due to faulty injectors), they couldn't do enough for me... including replacing all my injectors for free when rebuilding my engine. Also, I recall times when I'd pop in when something wasn't right with the car and Greg would sort it and not even bill me... this desire to help others probably contributed to the problems that followed. So, from a technical aspect... I'm not very mechanically minded so I, like many others have to put my faith in those that "know" what they're doing. My engine rebuild has, so far, yielded fantastic results. In fact, as I understand, my car is the most powerfull car that's been on Dan Turner's dyno (bare in mind I've had no "flow" work carried out to the head) and is no.8 on Monkeymarks drag racing times after it's first outing on a drag strip. The point I'm getting at is that my engine is performing fantastically well thanks to both Turbofit and DT... and I reckon I spent quite a bit less money on the build than alot of people have had to. Obviously, there are always things that go wrong when you're modifying and putting more stresses on a car than it was designed to take, but throughout my dealings with TF I never felt that they turned their back on me or shunned away from their responsibilities or the odd error I found with my car. I'm not saying they never made mistakes or perhaps even "rushed" projects slightly, but I do feel that this happened more so towards the end... and therefore I feel it was their ever worsening financial problems that was mostly to blame for the lack in communication and service that some people suffered. Now that TF has closed for business, I hope that those with outstanding claims/disputes have their problems sorted as best they can. I too have had some car related issues of late and despite Greg being his usual helpfull self, I know that I will have to take a hit due to the company being insolvent. The only thing that I'm sure of is that Greg and Sam desperately wanted Turbofit to work... whatever money I and some others now have to right-off, I know it doesn't come close to the £300k Sam's lost and so despite my own frustrations, I sympathise for all parties involved... Best regards to all at mkiv, Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tDR Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 such a shame to lose some great members. terry matt h migster eyefi terminator ian c is still around and is a sound bloke would trust him or any of above to do work on my car.u also know cw will do a top notch job on your car too.i have this thing in my head i would find it hard to trust any garage again. such a shame to see long standing members slowly dissapear. Careful not to confuse Matt H with Matt Harwood folks, very hard to discern who is who in this thread. For Clarity: Matt H - club member Matt Harwood - Long standing and most knowledgeable club member who's helped countless people over the years and certainly shouldn't be associated with the above carry on Turbofit - In summary for me, good people at heart but questionable knowledge and workmanship. Which has eventually led us to this point... Cheers, Brian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 Careful not to confuse Matt H with Matt Harwood folks, very hard to discern who is who in this thread. For Clairty: Matt H - club member Matt Harwood - Long standing and most knowledgeable club member who's helped countless people over the years and certainly shouldn't be associated with the above carry on Turbofit - In summary for me, good people at heart but questionable knowledge and workmanship. Which has eventually led us to this point... Cheers, Brian. Yep, Matt Harwood is a great bloke, although he has never taken me out in his single Supra dammit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 Hi guys, Although I haven't read every single thread/comment regarding Turbofit of late, I thought, having been involved with TF since my Supra ownership began exactly a year ago that I should say a few words... TF became a popular choice for many due to the friendly, unselfish and helpfull characters of Sam and Greg. From day one, I was regulary contacted with the status of my car mods and was always made very welcome when visiting on social calls. When my car's engine blew up after just 6 weeks of ownership (due to faulty injectors), they couldn't do enough for me... including replacing all my injectors for free when rebuilding my engine. Also, I recall times when I'd pop in when something wasn't right with the car and Greg would sort it and not even bill me... this desire to help others probably contributed to the problems that followed. So, from a technical aspect... I'm not very mechanically minded so I, like many others have to put my faith in those that "know" what they're doing. My engine rebuild has, so far, yielded fantastic results. In fact, as I understand, my car is the most powerfull car that's been on Dan Turner's dyno (bare in mind I've had no "flow" work carried out to the head) and is no.8 on Monkeymarks drag racing times after it's first outing on a drag strip. The point I'm getting at is that my engine is performing fantastically well thanks to both Turbofit and DT... and I reckon I spent quite a bit less money on the build than alot of people have had to. Obviously, there are always things that go wrong when you're modifying and putting more stresses on a car than it was designed to take, but throughout my dealings with TF I never felt that they turned their back on me or shunned away from their responsibilities or the odd error I found with my car. I'm not saying they never made mistakes or perhaps even "rushed" projects slightly, but I do feel that this happened more so towards the end... and therefore I feel it was their ever worsening financial problems that was mostly to blame for the lack in communication and service that some people suffered. Now that TF has closed for business, I hope that those with outstanding claims/disputes have their problems sorted as best they can. I too have had some car related issues of late and despite Greg being his usual helpfull self, I know that I will have to take a hit due to the company being insolvent. The only thing that I'm sure of is that Greg and Sam desperately wanted Turbofit to work... whatever money I and some others now have to right-off, I know it doesn't come close to the £300k Sam's lost and so despit my own frustrations, I symapathise for all parties involved... Best regards to all at mkiv, Dan Nice post, I feel exactly the same, everything they have done for my car ive been very happy with, ive had a few problems with the car (mostly down to me not being mechanicly sympathetic) a while ago but they did everything for me they could to sort the car with no extra cost to me. Ive not been on the forum that much of late but have read that certain members have had a few problems with there cars and im sorry to read that and hope you guys get your cars sorted. Greg has helped me out so many times i have nothing but praise for him, even getting out of bed near midnight and driving an hour to work to take delivery of my car from RAC after a couple of late night diff explosions:D Good luck in the future Greg ad Sam:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheefa Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 Quite honestly, I'm pissed off now. OK, so people have mentioned that TF issues have cropped up in the past and that their level of professionalism leaves a lot to be desired for. Yes, I can also understand that a negative, but truthful comment about their work may also lead to a mass uprising of members on the forum. However, I joined this club for 2 main reasons. A) To be part of the community and B) To pool the knowledge of others and their recommendations for who should work on our cars. So whilst I can understand people were reluctant to post up any slanderous comments about TF and others, it would of been nice if the 'people in the know' just dropped a PM to members when asking about who they should use to service their cars etc. I've lost my car now due to a) numerous problems that cots a lot of money, but also b) a lot of bad worksmanship and 'missed' or newly created problems. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogmaw Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 One thing I still don't understand is, notwithstanding the issues people have had with TF, how does a company with full order books, charging good money, end up going bust? Have these issues had an effect on the business? Will the debt be bought and they continue trading? The saga continues... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 One thing I still don't understand is, notwithstanding the issues people have had with TF, how does a company with full order books, charging good money, end up going bust? Have these issues had an effect on the business? Will the debt be bought and they continue trading? The saga continues... Overtrading............. ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branners Posted August 4, 2007 Author Share Posted August 4, 2007 One thing I still don't understand is, notwithstanding the issues people have had with TF, how does a company with full order books, charging good money, end up going bust? Have these issues had an effect on the business? Will the debt be bought and they continue trading? The saga continues... if you look through the 'happy' threads above you will see quite a few references to work being fixed for free, even when it doesnt appear to be their fault. Replacing failed cranks, blown engines, front crank oil seals and failed injectors is not cheap. As a trader you generally look to charge for the work you do unless it is quite obviously your fault. I believe TF have closed the doors for good and wont be returning in any guise. JB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 All very unfortunate for all involved, i have never had any dealings with TF, but i have talked to Greg on the phone,and IMO seemed a very helpful and knowledgeable guy, all i will say in comment is that i have both worked in the trade and have friends who have run successful business, and one of the biggest nightmares is the customer who knows nothing, or know nothing but thinks he does/or listens to the chit chat of people who also think they do! they are usually the ones that buy a modded car that has bodges/problems, and then take it to whatever garage/tuner for work, they subsequently get the car back with the things sorted that it was taken in for, but as most garages can't afford the time required, or even notice all the bodges/faults that they where not asked to fix in the first place. So along comes the customers mates and start to point out all these little things that are still wrong ! so the Chinese whispers start etc! Now don't get the idea that i am saying this about the people who have genuine problems with TF, i am just pointing out a known scenario from my experiences of the way it sometimes goes, There are the rare tuners/garages that will pick up on everything, and you will usually find that they are the ones that have a very small clientèle, but charge a LOT of money for their work, that or they don't need to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 On the idea of accepting future traders perhaps going along the lines of a traditional account application process might be useful? A clear form that needs information such as: Company name, Company No. Length of time in business (THIS company) check the directors history for previous companies (All this info is available very cheaply. ) Number of staff official qualifications of staff or training in the area of business (ie bodywork, mechanical courses) Some kind of history reporting on their professional activities to substantiate their claim that they know what they're doing. (ie. Worked along side XXX on rally engine building etc) It's by no means a comprehensive list above and just a starting point, (for instance I realise this doesn't cover sole traders or hobbyists) but would go some way towards assessing the background of people? This info should then be a sticky at the top of their forum section along with the vote for acceptance. It would also be quite hard on start ups, but if they're a serious company they will have some training or professional accreditation to back them up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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