stupra Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 Is there a worthy gain in having cam's and an EMU installed when being just BPU ?. If I have the cam's fitted I would have a set of 550 injector's fitted also, so I could safely safely run 1.2 bar, (mapped with the EMU). I have the chance to have the cam's fitted while my car is being serviced, so what are your view's, will it be worth it power wise ?. Thank's Stu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 With the price of cams it's not a very cost effective power increase, but yes, with the bigger injectors and aftermarket ECU you can certainly gain a good few HP at the top end. Are you using the stock jspec turbo's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SupraAyf Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 A little bird once told me that fitting 256 cams to a JSPEC was a very reasonable mod indeed. I believe the standard cams are 206's (approx) so the 256 variants will give a hefty 30-40 horses:cool: EDIT: The difference will not be so apparent if you own a UK model as the standard cam sizes for UK cars is roughly 236's (approx, but don't quote me on the exact figure) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 The only problem with lumpy cams is they may shift the peak torque a bit further up the RPM range,so fit adjustable pulleys so you can tweak them, i can;t see the need for bigger injectors, I'm running hybrid UK turbo at 1.2 bar and i have quite a bit of fuel removed from the EMU map. Oh and i am very very doubtful that cams would give 30-40 bhp increase, maybe 15 max! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyb10supra Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 A. I believe the standard cams are 206's (approx) so the 256 variants will give a hefty 30-40 horses:cool: Not a chance mate, although I wait to be proved wrong in my opinion UK cams would be a better option, in most cases especially with turbo cars, you will find a mild cam overlap is often better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colsoop Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 Nic did something similar with his although he had his hard wired in to TTC mode, but i think he had cams as well though. he gained a fairly significant mid range torque curve IIRC If you ask him nice im sure he could give you some pointers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 The stock j-specs are about 222deg...the 256's will add a little oomph up top and give you a nice base if you go further in the future. Having an EMU in and mapped will also allow the stock over richness to be dialed out giving you more power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carl0s Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 Is this why my BPU UK spec car had a mad urge when no2 came online, but my BPU Jap spec doesn't? I have other problems though.. I'm only seeing 18psi in high gears. In lower gears it doesn't make 15psi, so I need an electronic boost controller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamc Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 I think my car is the perfect example of this... Stock engine 264 cams fmic exhaust 680cc fueling hybrid turbos link ecu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 Nic did something similar with his although he had his hard wired in to TTC mode, but i think he had cams as well though. he gained a fairly significant mid range torque curve IIRC If you ask him nice im sure he could give you some pointers. That's correct when BPU I had in256/ex264 cams and emanage, the cams gave a noticeable gain in mid to top end power, at the expense of a little lower down. The emanage also made a good increase. I'd recommend both mods at BPU levels and as Aex says it is a good foundation if you go further with a single install. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stupra Posted August 2, 2007 Author Share Posted August 2, 2007 Thank's guy's . I already have the cam's (HKS 264 in & ex), and the EMU ready to go in as I was meant to be going single so I don't need to buy them, (New BL t61 and PE 650's for sale ). I was told the 440's may be near maxed out at 1.2 bar, and that a set of 550's would be a safer bet for regular use. The engine is a standard J spec, with standard J spec turbo's as far as I know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 You'll get a stronger top end, especially at 5500rpm+ where it'll pull like a train to the limiter instead of choking up. Pulling fuel out with the EMU will also sharpen it up above 4000rpm, so you'll get good results with both. You also need to tune the fuelling for the cams because of the freer breathing up there, otherwise it can start to go lean. 550cc injectors may help there but at 1.2bar on J-specs your 440s should just about cope. -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stupra Posted August 2, 2007 Author Share Posted August 2, 2007 Thank's Ian , I was hoping you'd be up for mapping the car when it's done. You fancy the job ?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 Love to -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stupra Posted August 2, 2007 Author Share Posted August 2, 2007 Love to -Ian Thank's mate, the car's at Phoenix having the work done now, so i'll get in touch when it's finished. Should be around the middle of the month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 I found it was definitely worth fitting the cams. I had 650 injectors, and 264 in/ex cams with a EMB to control things. This was mapped by Ian (both in TTC and sequential operation). Gave the car alot more go from around 5000rpms to the redline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tucky40 Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 so what is the conclusion on the need for bigger injectors with this set up then guys? From what i understand the emanage is used to lean the mixture and give more power so why add bigger injectors and add more fuel? I'm looking at possibly buying a piggy back like the emanage or map ecu2 and 264 cams but would u recommend bigger injectors too? My car is jspec bpu manual. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyb10supra Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 so what is the conclusion on the need for bigger injectors with this set up then guys? From what i understand the emanage is used to lean the mixture and give more power so why add bigger injectors and add more fuel? Leaning it out will trim the fuel mixture not the amount needed.....it still needs more fuel but the mixture going in is leaned out I personally would just to safegaurd things although as Ian said it will prob cope but why not drop 550's in to avoid any potential problems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 440's will be pretty much at their maximum running 100% duty at 1.2 bar. With 550's at least you have a bit more safety headroom to avoid melting a piston or two! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 Leaning it out will trim the fuel mixture not the amount needed.....it still needs more fuel but the mixture going in is leaned out I personally would just to safegaurd things although as Ian said it will prob cope but why not drop 550's in to avoid any potential problems Sorry but you have it wrong, trimming the fuel mixture does just that, less fuel, there is no less is more;) As Matt says running hybrids may require larger injectors once over 1.2 bar, but i must admit i am running 440s and i have a lot of fuel removed, and i am nowhere near 90% duty cycle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyb10supra Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 Sorry but you have it wrong, trimming the fuel mixture does just that, less fuel, there is no less is more;) As Matt says running hybrids may require larger injectors once over 1.2 bar, but i must admit i am running 440s and i have a lot of fuel removed, and i am nowhere near 90% duty cycle. dont think I explained very clearly to be honest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandan Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 The cars run rich as they are - very rich indeed. Some people will fit a fuel computer and use it to remove fuel, leaning the mixture out somewhere closer to 11.5 or maybe as lean as 11.8:1 when over 4000rpm and on boost. That alone will yield more power. Fitting cams will allow freer breathing at certain rpms (above 5k in this case let's say). Now it may be that the fuelling (in it's original rich state) will be sufficient for a sensible afr ratio with this greater airflow. Chances are it will not be right somewhere though. If you want to fit cams I'd make sure you have some form of wideband lambda display and sensor in place forst and also be prepared to fork out for slightly larger injectors and the ecu of your choice to run them.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tucky40 Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 So am i right in thinking there are various opinions on this?? Trick Ricky it sounds like it would be fine running 440 injectors on jspec tubbies at 1.2 bar from what you say, and i would still possibly need to lean the mixture with something like emanage. Is general opinion that its just 'safer' to go for 550s too. Can you actually read the AFRs and duty cycle when using an emanage emu to make sure everything is within limits and the injectors arent over worked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tucky40 Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 dandan missed your post there!! that makes things a little clearer to a tech retard like myself.......doesnt the emanage ultimate allow for inbuilt wideband sensing?? therefore no need for a wideband lambada sensor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandan Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 You still need a wideband lambda sensor (and associated heater circuitry etc which is built in) and you use the output from that to go to the EManage. I have never ran any aftermarkets cams with 440cc injectors. It may be that you can depending on boost levels but you definitely want a wideband in there to keep an eye on things. If you are looking a little lean on the mixture then you need bigger injectors or more fuel pressure. Putting bigger injectors in or upping the fuel pressure will mean that everywhere else on your fuel map will be really rich. Then you use the Emanage to lean the rest of the fuel map out. Does that make sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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