suprafan72 Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 Wonder if any of the winter rebuild Boys would be interesting in an Engine Dyno Shootout... Im probably going to take the engine out of the supra over the winter and do things to it to make it as strong as an Ox. and just wondered if anyone was doing the same and fancied putting there engine on an engine dyno to determine the real power not flywheel/rwhp guestimates.... Probably won't be many takers but would be a sure thing to know the real power of peoples engines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wkdtime Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 Im happy with the my pub talk figures:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 Respect, this is the correct way to do things, should be interesting if people take this up and use the same facility. Having the cost for the mounts and drive adaptor for one engine shared amongst others will significantly reduce costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_have Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 Wonder if any of the winter rebuild Boys would be interesting in an Engine Dyno Shootout... Im probably going to take the engine out of the supra over the winter and do things to it to make it as strong as an Ox. and just wondered if anyone was doing the same and fancied putting there engine on an engine dyno to determine the real power not flywheel/rwhp guestimates.... Probably won't be many takers but would be a sure thing to know the real power of peoples engines. Which dyno will you be using? Thats the only way to get REAL no bs numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suprafan72 Posted July 31, 2007 Author Share Posted July 31, 2007 Not sure as of yet.. .will research it.. I believe Chris Mentioned a good one in a previous post.. if i get enough interested parties.. i will approach them about the cost and how much it would be to fabricate some engine mounts for our engines... Allso to be honest im not sure i believe any Dyno figures RWHP and FWHP as they all seem to be so different... This surely has to be the only way to prove what power our engines are producing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nicholas Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 I'd be interested in the cost of this, there's nothing like testing out a very powerful engine before it goes in the car Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 Swindons charge circa 900 a day on the dyno, plus oils and fuel. The first engine to be dynoed will need mounts and flywheel adaptor making, the cost of which could be shared with others using the dyno later. Other GOOD dyno operators are: http://www.iesracing.co.uk/Services.htm http://www.knightracingservices.co.uk/about.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandan Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 I might be able to help with drive adaptors* and possibly mounts. * Would need to see a required length and a drawing or sketch of the dyno drive input (assuming the engine end just picks up on the bolt holes for the flywheel in the end of the crank).... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suprafan72 Posted July 31, 2007 Author Share Posted July 31, 2007 I might be able to help with drive adaptors* and possibly mounts. * Would need to see a required length and a drawing or sketch of the dyno drive input (assuming the engine end just picks up on the bolt holes for the flywheel in the end of the crank).... Excellent Dan, I will speak to some of the companie's chris has mentioned and see if they will provide this information to me.... I guess its down to interest on this now?? Im certainly serious about getting this done as i believe its the right way of doing things? Bump!!! Any takers? to make this worth it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kranz Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 Are you going to run the engine in on the car then take it out for the dyno??? Otherwise there'll be a lot of dyno time taken up just running in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 An hour, two at the very most. If it's built right it will be fine to run WOT full load after less than 2 hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 The dyno input shaft is bolted to the clutch cover mounts on whatever flywheel you run. Someone could lodge say a Giken flywheel with them, and they could use that for all mapping of these engines, so only one adaptor plat would be needed. Anyone running a normal AP Racing clutch would find they have adaptors for all of those on the shelf. You would just need to give them size and PCD of the clutch cover mounting holes otherwise. To make engine mounts they'd need an actual engine to work from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suprafan72 Posted July 31, 2007 Author Share Posted July 31, 2007 The beauty's of an engine dyno that u can run it in, in a very short space of time.... ideal for newly built engines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 Here's some good info on engine dyno V rolling road power measurement: http://www.pumaracing.co.uk/POWER3.htm http://www.pumaracing.co.uk/coastdwn.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suprafan72 Posted July 31, 2007 Author Share Posted July 31, 2007 Here's some good info on engine dyno V rolling road power measurement: http://www.pumaracing.co.uk/POWER3.htm http://www.pumaracing.co.uk/coastdwn.htm Great Info Chris, This really strengthens my case in the engine dynometers are really the only reliable source of engine power output.... Allso further makes me believe that any RR is inaccurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wkdtime Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 Great Info Chris, This really strengthens my case in the engine dynometers are really the only reliable source of engine power output.... Allso further makes me believe that any RR is inaccurate. An engine Dyno is the best way to map/Run in an engine, I don't doubt that for one moment. But when it comes down to performance/true power, what's more important? Power the car is acutally making at the wheels? or power that the engine is outputting? Engine Dyno's are only really worth doing when mapping the car or running in a new engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suprafan72 Posted July 31, 2007 Author Share Posted July 31, 2007 If it was so important that how much power the car was running at the wheels, how come major car manufacturers use an engine dyno to calculate there cars output? Allso using an engine dyno its allot easier to simulate conditions than a pair of huge fans infront of the car..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wkdtime Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 If it was so important that how much power the car was running at the wheels, how come major car manufacturers use an engine dyno to calculate there cars output? Allso using an engine dyno its allot easier to simulate conditions than a pair of huge fans infront of the car..... Well they might aswell as the engine is already out of the car and Im just talking about heavily modded cars which run quite a bit more power than the chasis was designed for and in such cases I think It's much more important to know the power your putting to the wheels rather than the engine output. Again im not disputing an engine dyno is the best way to map a car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suprafan72 Posted July 31, 2007 Author Share Posted July 31, 2007 Well they might aswell as the engine is already out of the car and Im just talking about heavily modded cars which run quite a bit more power than the chasis was designed for and in such cases I think It's much more important to know the power your putting to the wheels rather than the engine output. Again im not disputing an engine dyno is the best way to map a car. Appreciate your comments.. and we could debate about this for ages.... You obviously need to match your chassis mod's to the engines power output, whether its in or out of the car... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wkdtime Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 Appreciate your comments.. and we could debate about this for ages.... You obviously need to match your chassis mod's to the engines power output, whether its in or out of the car... Lol, we can go all day with this, anyways bud good luck with the project and keep us updated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandan Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 I like hub based "rolling roads" as well. I know there's alot of dispute on here about Thor's figures but you cannot fault the repeatability and relative accuracy. Eliminating tyre drag effects is a big step forward in my opinion and I'd rather do back to back comparisons on a hub dyno than a true rolling road. An engine dyno would be my first choice but the impracticalities of it do not suit the hobby nature in which I work on my car, doing bits and bobs here and there. Plus i'd always want to monitor and then more than likely tweak the mapping on the road for fine tuning.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suprafan72 Posted July 31, 2007 Author Share Posted July 31, 2007 I like hub based "rolling roads" as well. I know there's alot of dispute on here about Thor's figures but you cannot fault the repeatability and relative accuracy. Eliminating tyre drag effects is a big step forward in my opinion and I'd rather do back to back comparisons on a hub dyno than a true rolling road. An engine dyno would be my first choice but the impracticalities of it do not suit the hobby nature in which I work on my car, doing bits and bobs here and there. Plus i'd always want to monitor and then more than likely tweak the mapping on the road for fine tuning.. One thing i might do... Is get my engine mapped and dynoed on an Engine Dyno.. Take it straight away to a hub dyno then take it to an RR and compare the generic differences between all three.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandan Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 Good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheefa Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 An engine Dyno is the best way to map/Run in an engine, I don't doubt that for one moment. But when it comes down to performance/true power, what's more important? Power the car is acutally making at the wheels? or power that the engine is outputting? Engine Dyno's are only really worth doing when mapping the car or running in a new engine. That's the best post yet and EXACTLY what I was thinking. What with the weight of the car, various electronic gizmos zapping power, tranny losses etc, what's the real point in doing an Engine Dyno? Surely another mere pub talk figure i.e. "Yeah my engine got 600bhp" when really on the road she's only putting down about 500bhp etc. Seems like a vast expense to test something that will still not give you an accurate performance figure for 'on the road' driving. All my opinion of course and am open to be crucified by CW and the like Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suprafan72 Posted July 31, 2007 Author Share Posted July 31, 2007 That's the best post yet and EXACTLY what I was thinking. What with the weight of the car, various electronic gizmos zapping power, tranny losses etc, what's the real point in doing an Engine Dyno? Surely another mere pub talk figure i.e. "Yeah my engine got 600bhp" when really on the road she's only putting down about 500bhp etc. Seems like a vast expense to test something that will still not give you an accurate performance figure for 'on the road' driving. All my opinion of course and am open to be crucified by CW and the like I could start on the crucifiction but i won't..well for now:p Why would you think an Engine Dyno figure is a pub talk figure...? Its surely a more realistic power output than what a hub/rr would give.... Maybe im wrong? maybe most major car manufacteurs are wrong when they protype there engines??? Nice to see different points of view though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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