Paul Posted August 3, 2007 Share Posted August 3, 2007 Yea and Ipod is shite quality too... Yep, they are:d had to return my first three after buying them as none of them worked due to fatal errors with the hard drive:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowboy bebop Posted August 3, 2007 Share Posted August 3, 2007 ... yes there is some crap out there That about sums up the entire arguement right there... Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted August 3, 2007 Share Posted August 3, 2007 Also materials would be from Poland, which is one of world leaders in producing aluminium. Search for KGHM Poland. Sorry, have to correct you here too, I worked for twelve years or more for a large european aluminium supplier and we supplied 'quality'. We had a reputation for being the best, not cheap but bloody good stuff. Well, we saw a down turn when loads of cheap aluminium was being sold over here from eastern europe but once companies had tried it and realised the shite quality and the problems and costs it created they all came running back to us Not wishing to get into a battle of any sort but my experience is based on fact and I just thought I'd share it:d Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konrad Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 Sorry, have to correct you here too, I worked for twelve years or more for a large european aluminium supplier and we supplied 'quality'. We had a reputation for being the best, not cheap but bloody good stuff. Well, we saw a down turn when loads of cheap aluminium was being sold over here from eastern europe but once companies had tried it and realised the shite quality and the problems and costs it created they all came running back to us Not wishing to get into a battle of any sort but my experience is based on fact and I just thought I'd share it:d If you did work for "large aluminium supplier" you would hear about KGHM for sure, unless you was some kind of loader or truck driver. Even tho you should hear about them, because their aluminium, copper and other metals have attests and certificates issued by the London Metal Exchange. Do your homework for Christ sake... You was prolly getting metals from there anyway lol. It's the 6th-largest producer of copper and the 2nd-largest producer of silver in the world. Most of the metals extracted by this company goes... guess where? Yes - Germany, France, The United Kingdom, Austria and Belgium Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobSheffield Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 LOL at the muppets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MONKEYmark Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 i bought some toyota plastic rings for £65 rip off uk prices what a load of shite they are.coating comes off if u try to clean to hard. big waste of money for some pressed plastic.must be all of 20p worth of plastic dont waste your money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 It's a shame that in the UK we don't share the same passion about making things in our own country that Eric has, our industry might be a lot better than it is today. But we have to be realistic and look at the economics of things, and if that means producing things in China is going to be more cost effective then it's no surprise businesses choose this option. Sadly most Chinese manufacturing does seem to have awfully high failure rates and poor quality across many sectors that I've had experience in (IT and other). I also think the Chinese lady in McDonalds is only representative of the quality of employees there, and not specifically because she's Chinese! It's going to be very interesting to watch what happens in China in the coming years. As they become richer no doubt it won't be as cheap to produce things out there and maybe we'll see industry returning back to the native countries...or to another place where they can take advantage of the indigenous people on low wages. As for Polish people - I know a guy that will only employ them to do work for him as their attention to detail, enthusiasm and commitment far outweighs that of the British people. Unsurprising as we're predominantly a nation of fat, lazy sods that want everything with minimum effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter richards Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 agree pete, at one time we lead the way in engineering , only for develpoing countries to copy , and then undercut . the last paragraph though pete i think has something to do with the fact theyll work for fuck all , get all their mates in and totally take over . theres a major construction in pembroke atm all the labour are polish , cant speak a word of english , how the fuck did they get their safety passes . when a few years ago i had to practically sit a fucking exam to get mine , and im a qualified time served fabricator. also they are now fucking up the valeting scene , as they think its a piece of piss to valet/detail a vehicle , . not being racist or anything , but dont you see a pattern emerging here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 I've lived and worked in HK for 11 years, 8 of which were spent developing toys for one of the world premier preschool toy brands, to extremely rigorous quality standards. There is a lot of ignorance when it comes to China, unless you have been there, spent time there, visited factories and been involved in developing products there, then you have no idea what you are talking about. Yes there are a lot of very low quality products that come out of China, there are also some very high quality products that come from there too. Some of the most modern, advance factories in the world these days are in China, working to very high international standards. A massive percentage of the worlds consumer products are made in China, the reason for that is us; you and me who want cheaper and cheaper products. China is a developing country with a huge population of skilled and unskilled labour that in Western terms is cheap to employ. Without China (and countries like it) we in developed countries would be a lot poorer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmo Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 I've lived and worked in HK for 11 years, 8 of which were spent developing toys for one of the world premier preschool toy brands, to extremely rigorous quality standards. There is a lot of ignorance when it comes to China, unless you have been there, spent time there, visited factories and been involved in developing products there, then you have no idea what you are talking about. Yes there are a lot of very low quality products that come out of China, there are also some very high quality products that come from there too. Some of the most modern, advance factories in the world these days are in China, working to very high international standards. A massive percentage of the worlds consumer products are made in China, the reason for that is us; you and me who want cheaper and cheaper products. China is a developing country with a huge population of skilled and unskilled labour that in Western terms is cheap to employ. Without China (and countries like it) we in developed countries would be a lot poorer. The chinese market can be a bit of a mine field and I have had products in the past that have fallen short of my expectations but I now have very good relationships with Chinese companies that provide high quality machined parts, everything is quality controlled and manufactured to international standards. We source these products for some big OEM companies in the UK, if the quality was crap they wouldn't re-order from us, but they do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmo Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 I just took a proper look at the thread for Cowbays REAL aluminium dash rings, for some reason I thought they were £25 for the set, but they are £71 for pre-facelift & £75 for facelift, I nearly fell off my chair When I ewtimated the chinese price being £4.50 i meant for a set of 3, not each, I'm definitely in the wrong business Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter richards Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 just like what was mentioned earlier in the thread , you get what you pay for , and compared to the price of the plastic ones , i dont think they are expensive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmo Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 just like what was mentioned earlier in the thread , you get what you pay for , and compared to the price of the plastic ones , i dont think they are expensive The plastic ones were probably from a dealer who make huge profits on cheap products, I'm talking about nett prices from manufacturers not list prices. No disrespect to cowboys products as I'm sure they are top notch and they will look fantastic fitted, but I'm pretty sure that most of the £71 that you're paying for the set of rings is labour with some profit. All I am saying is, you can get very close to the same quality for a fraction of the price by sourcing them from China, you could probably get them in stainless steel for a 10th of the price, I mean they are only aluminium rings, were not talking cylinder heads here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted August 5, 2007 Share Posted August 5, 2007 the last paragraph though pete i think has something to do with the fact theyll work for fuck all , get all their mates in and totally take over . Yes, there is that as well. It won't last forever though. Nics comments are true also, there's plenty of stuff made in China which are just fine (iPods for instance). I think it all depends upon the company in question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter richards Posted August 5, 2007 Share Posted August 5, 2007 agree again pete , companys are now paying the price for using to many of these guys , as their demands increase via an interpreter , thing is when the shit hits the fan and they want local labour the answer going to be fxxx off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewen Posted August 5, 2007 Share Posted August 5, 2007 Although Im looking forward to recieving my set of rings, I'd rather they had been made in Japan;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowboy bebop Posted August 6, 2007 Share Posted August 6, 2007 Elmo, I really couldn't care less about how much you can pay to have your rings produced, good luck with them. In the end though, everyone will know that all you've accomplished in making is another mass produced whored out piece of Chinese junk that doesn't add any value to the MKIV whatsoever. That's the point I'm trying to get across. Let me give you this example. I own a real JUN intake manifold, 1 of ~10 ever made. I got a good deal on it back in 2002, and paid $2500usd with (6) 1200cc injectors. Fast forward to present day. If you pull up intakes on cheap-bay, you see there is a "JUN style" intake manifold selling for a fraction of the price. The difference in quality is readily apparent. Also I can guarantee and provide proof that the resale value is much higher because my parts (real JUN manifold in this case) isn't hasn't been whored out from Chinatown. That's the difference between looking that dollar signs as the bottom line, and looking at quality parts that actually are worth what the Supra is worth. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmo Posted August 6, 2007 Share Posted August 6, 2007 In the end though, everyone will know that all you've accomplished in making is another mass produced whored out piece of Chinese junk that doesn't add any value to the MKIV whatsoever. I don't really understand your problem Eric. Take a look around your house, your PC/Laptop, LCD screen, Plasma screen, Digital Camera, DVD player, MP3 player, games console and mobile phones most of which are probably made in China, you would buy these hi-tech gizmo's (probably unkowingly) but wouldn't consider a few chinese aluminium rings! Nearly everything you buy nowadays is made in China and the quality is top class, you've just got to accept it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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