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Comparison of Single Turbo RWHPs


Jake

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Mike it might be an idea to get an approved mapper to check out whats going on as I recall you are doing this with the ECU remapping itself.

 

I guess you have already checked the fueling but what about ignition as this can have great affects on how a turbo spools.

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I am beginning to get a grasp of what all this stuff means now courtesy of garretts technical info from their site http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/tech_center/tech_center.html

Its still all very confusing though. Especially as the same firm has different turbo name types. I thought it was as simple as a T61 is so so size and the T67 is bigger than the T61 but each of those two turbo's come with a variety of compressor and exhaust size options that look to all intents and purposes that you could have a T61 and a T67 the same size? Even the gt4088 has all different sizes. Replacing my T04R with something else seems very complicated a choice now. I can post the dyno sheets from my car from both thors hub dyno and the one dan turner uses in Bletchly when next I am in the UK

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Well mine put down 455 bhp at the hubs at JAE on thors hub dyno and 458 at the crank calculated using transmission run down on the dyno at my tuners the day after. Obviously a bit of a difference.
That's about normal for Thor.

What was it at the wheels at Marlin in Bletchley?

 

 

I can post the dyno sheets from my car from both thors hub dyno and the one dan turner uses in Bletchly when next I am in the UK
That would be intesting. Cheers.
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Mike what AFR's have you got at full throttle from 2000rpm up until she's making let's say 0.5bar?

 

I will check for you. from memory she sits around 13 until it kicks in then it goes to 10.5 recovering to a steady 11.3 all the way to the redline. I have done a tank of fuel in the car now and it is settling down, it is actually getting better... but it's still no hare trigger,,, when she goes.. holy cow she goes! still quite unreal just how much power there is in 3rd and 4th.

 

.96 sounds big, did you have a choice?

 

no, the GT488R smallest housing available is a .96... they used to do a .85 non divided housing which Jamie P used, his replacement tubby came with a .96 I believe so it would be interesting to say what he thinks... I would have had the .85 if I had had a choice.

 

so I have jumped from .68 housing to a .96.. maybe that explains a lot?

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Does your power drop slightly when you hit the upper rev range at all or is it solid right up to the redline?

 

Mine starts to tail off around 6200rpm, but I still have the stock jspec cams in! It's still 'pulling' though, but you can feel it dropping.

 

From what others have said they pull pretty much to redline with some higher lift cams (Ian C I think has some good data on this).

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My GT4088R housing is 0.68 and it pulls to the redline very strongly (it is a unit modified by Precision though and I do have 264's)

 

sounds good...

is it divided?

my 35 (uses a precision housing too) ran out of puff around 6 on a .68 housing, and I run 264 cams as well.

 

Maybe this is the key; bigger turbo, smaller ar.?

 

maybe we need to meet up so we can check it out!? it would be interesting to see how the two cars compare..

 

Mine starts to tail off around 6200rpm, but I still have the stock jspec cams in! It's still 'pulling' though, but you can feel it dropping.
yup, just what i had on the 35. intersting to see that Javansio's pulls to the line...
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yup, just what i had on the 35. intersting to see that Javansio's pulls to the line...

 

From what I can find so far it's down to the cams rather than the turbo. Ryan was finding this during the mapping too. The US guys say the turbo should be pulling until 7k rpm, so thats more than enough for a street car.

 

Will be interested to see Jays results too. The BL ones are put together by precision too, I wonder who actually makes them?

 

Shame us guys aren't closer geographically, would be a good excuse for a meet :D

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sounds good...

is it divided?

my 35 (uses a precision housing too) ran out of puff around 6 on a .68 housing, and I run 264 cams as well.

 

Maybe this is the key; bigger turbo, smaller ar.?

 

maybe we need to meet up so we can check it out!? it would be interesting to see how the two cars compare..

 

yup, just what i had on the 35. intersting to see that Javansio's pulls to the line...

It's not divided Mike, aye we'll def have to meet up, should get the car back this week & mapped on Friday so can sort something out very soon.

 

When I first got the car back after the rebuild & I was running it in it was so hard not to go past 6.5k, it just kept pulling & pulling well past that, I had to keep an eye on the revs all the time as if you changed gear when it felt natural you'd be past 7k

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The AR's are quite different on the 2 turbos, that may explain the big difference in throttle response. My GT35R is .82 AR and as you describe throttle response is virtually instant.

 

Hey Nic,

 

How do you think a GT35R with an 0.63 A/R would compare to yours? I am thinking of going with one of these babies as I feel it will give me more then enough power for the time being, and even better response than the other 61mm turbos with larger A/R's.... also I think my 550cc injectors would work quite nicely in addition with my EMU and I might only need a fuel pump upgrade (and the other obligatory parts - intake, header/manifold???, dump pipe, bov, wastegate).

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From what I can find so far it's down to the cams rather than the turbo. Ryan was finding this during the mapping too. The US guys say the turbo should be pulling until 7k rpm, so thats more than enough for a street car.

 

Will be interested to see Jays results too. The BL ones are put together by precision too, I wonder who actually makes them?

 

Shame us guys aren't closer geographically, would be a good excuse for a meet :D

I know Daryl, it'd be great to have the side by side to see how they all go on the road. I'd of loved to go to the RR day too but Surrey is such a distance :(

 

I hope when I say mine doesn't drop off past 6k that it's not in my imagination :D, I had a look at my last graph (1.25 BAR) and it shows power is on the up & torque isn't really taking a dive just yet as 7k nears:

 

image

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Hey Nic,

 

How do you think a GT35R with an 0.63 A/R would compare to yours? I am thinking of going with one of these babies as I feel it will give me more then enough power for the time being, and even better response than the other 61mm turbos with larger A/R's.... also I think my 550cc injectors would work quite nicely in addition with my EMU and I might only need a fuel pump upgrade (and the other obligatory parts - intake, header/manifold???, dump pipe, bov, wastegate).

 

The .63 AR should have a little more response and less top end. My GT35R with .82 AR though has virtually instant power, with very little lag; positive boost around 2K rpm and peak boost at 3Krpm and will spin the wheels when accelerating in first 3 gears. I can't imagine wanting any faster response than I already have.

 

550cc injectors will be close to their limit, I personally use 680cc injectors on mine. If you're still using the stock rail then Power Enterprise do drop in 650cc injectors that will fit.

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I hope when I say mine doesn't drop off past 6k that it's not in my imagination :D, I had a look at my last graph (1.25 BAR) and it shows power is on the up & torque isn't really taking a dive just yet as 7k nears:

 

can't argue with that... that's a lovely power curve there.

 

I'd be really interested to see how yours goes.

 

I may be sending my tubby of to get a smaller housing.

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Interesting information here guys, its good to see how the different spec turbos are changing spool charateristics.

 

FYI The BL T67 is available with DBB and Journal Bearing with these options :-

 

ar: .58, .68, .81 and .96

cover: E, H and S

 

I have no idea how the various covers affect anything but from information gathered here I would say a .68 or .81 would prob be the best option.

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image

 

This is the graph off my dyno run, im running a sound performance T67. The car made 480rwhp at only 1.1bar. Very nice turbo to drive with, i have cams on mine so i dont feel the power dropping off one bit :), even though the graph does show a slight dip over 6000rpm, its not noticeable. Not sure of the AR on the housing on mine, i'll have a look in a bit.

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I wonder if anyone has a dyno plot from a BL T63 turbo as this should sit in the middle of a T67 and T61, could be a nice compromise.

 

You can see on my dyno that stock j-sepc cams and a small PHR Stage 1 are choking the motor in the higher rev range.

 

image

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the GT488R smallest housing available is a .96... they used to do a .85 non divided housing which Jamie P used, his replacement tubby came with a .96 I believe so it would be interesting to say what he thinks
I think you're confusing the gt4088R with the non-R journal bearing turbo there Mike. I'm pretty sure Jamie has never had a 4088R, both his were plain 4088s. You can't really make comparisons between the housings of the two types because so much is different between them.

so I have jumped from .68 housing to a .96.. maybe that explains a lot?
I'm wondering if your ECU needs remapping for the new turbo. I know you said it's self-mapping but how well is it managing the ignition timing really?

Can the V Pro really remap itself for a different turbo? It just seems unlikely to me, but I'm no expert.

 

You can see on my dyno that stock j-sepc cams and a small PHR Stage 1 are choking the motor in the higher rev range.
I don't believe the stock cams are a problem with the PHR1 turbo as it ran out power just the same on my car, which has 264/264 cams.
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