michel lane Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 I would like to state that i have been using Dan Tuner to tune all of my cars and customers cars, in total 4 customers and 2 of mine . I havent had any problems with his abilities as a tuner and all the cars are prepared according to my specifications. All the cars have been tuned to my requirements and charged accordingly. I know that iam very conservitive with the amount of boost that i recommend to people, but at the end of the day i will only give the bhp that i have stated within my Ads any more it up to the owers risk's. The average tune has been between 520-600hp on all the cars that i preparing on behalf of the owners. Yes i do give a statement that while the cars are in my hands if the engine were to blow up i would be responsible for it. But this is only on full engine builds. Single turbo installs i would examine the car first and advise the clients furthur. You have to remember Dan tunes the cars given to him by a third party or client, So i think its up to the client \ third party to make sure that the cars are in order for the tune. Yes i dont believe in people selling items on this board unless they are vetted and pay the nessary fees to become a trader. But going back to car preperation, i think its a vital component that the cars are prepared correctly for the tune. It is good that the club eliminated various "Cowboys" and vettes new potential traders, but with ECU tuners, it's a very difficult field to identify who is at fault. I have a car in at the moment that was tuned by Dan in december last year. I took the car to the dyno last saturday to get a dyno run to see what Hp it was running. I deal with a company that develops race engines for rally cars and prepares them for tuning . After some short burst on the rolling road the head machanic had stated to me that he did not want to take the car any further then 3200rpm , because the ETG were shouting up to 900 degrees even though the wide band was showing 10.5 afr. I must state this was at short burst and i was in the car at this time. The machanic has seen how Dan Turner works and has commented many times that he knows what he is doing. Being in the Motorsports industry for over 25 years, i believe in his comments. He will be using Dan to tune some of the ECU's that he is not to sure about. This company prepares Rally cars and alot of high performance super cars, not the corsa to escort crowed as they are bloddy expensive aswell. Getting back to this car, I have seen Dan work and he is very methodical on what he does and taking steps to make sure the car does not det or go wrong on the dyno. The map that was installed on this car had supposely come from Dan through a third party. After seeing the install of the single kit and the quality of components i knew that this was not Dan's workmanship, even the Machanic identified this. As Dan Turner would have never let a car be tuned in this state nor components used to this grade. I contacted Dan about this map and about the car. I know from speaking to him in the past he would never tune a car on boost levels 1.2 - 1.6 bar on a Apexi fuel controller, as this is just asking for problems. It turns out that he has never touched this car nor tuned it . The dyno graph supplied with the car is nothing like the dyno graph that we did last Saturday, The graph that shows the spool is about 900 rpm better, to the graph that i have.The power curve even to 3200 is all wrong compmared to the original graph. The machanic examined the graph and it was obvious this was not the graph for this car. The graph made on saturday was only to 3200rpm, i know every dyno is different but no way this different. I had a dyno session with dan on his dyno and a week later got a dyno run on Motorscopes dyno , there was some difference in the HP and torque about "9" Hp and "10" torque, but the power delivery on the graph was nearly the same. If it wasnt for another tuner having looked at this car prior to me recieveing it, and advising the owner not to to drive it hard as the ETG were hitting 900, this car would have suffered serious engine problems. The boost levels are uncontrollerable as the boost controller is set as 1 bar and its over boosting to 1.6 bar . I will be taking pictures of the install and what was wrong with the setup and giving it to the owner, it is up to him if he wants make it public knowledge. So going back to Dan being banned, Branners has his points about the trader policy which i totally agree with, the club has make sure it does not get abused and the admins are doing a fine job of making sure people such as Bijal and other "sharks" get what they deserve within this forum. With Dan tuning ability, i have 110% confidance in it, as i know that the cars that get tunned has been prepared correctly before the tuning session. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suprafan72 Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 Dan is certainly getting very famous on here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branners Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 just to clarify... Dan had at least 2 engines fail on him on the dyno and he refused to explain or justify the reasons. Dan also threatened the club with legal action which is never a good move. He also refused to discuss the technical aspects of the AEM or highlight the posts that he feels are wrong. He was trading via the forum but providing no technical benefit to the members. We do also have information from other people who have used his services and are less than happy but we are unable to discuss those publically. On the other hand I know of 4 tuners now that use Dan's services and are happy. However, he wasnt picked off purely on the engine failures, it was a combination of elements that means we cannot say with any confidence that a customer will be 100% satisfied. I appreciate everybodys' understanding in this and hopefully you can all see that we never take this action lightly. JB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 Dan is certainly getting very famous on here! wonder if he's giving out discounts in return for praise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobSheffield Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 wonder if he's giving out discounts in return for praise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 Why did you start a new thread?? The other one isn't locked. And what's your point in the middle there??? Are you saying he made an engine and turbo combination work better with a standalone as opposed to the S-AFC it had before?? If that is your point then may I just say, I'd be quite annoyed if he hadn't!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suprafan72 Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 wonder if he's giving out discounts in return for praise Hahaha You guys are a bunch of clowns in the nicest way... Look forward to seeing you all at JAE!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 Hahaha You guys are a bunch of clowns in the nicest way... Look forward to seeing you all at JAE!!!! i won't be there - tied up with the ball and chain plus - theres no onsite igloo and icecream on demand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 Why did you start a new thread?? The other one isn't locked. And what's your point in the middle there??? Are you saying he made an engine and turbo combination work better with a standalone as opposed to the S-AFC it had before?? If that is your point then may I just say, I'd be having kittens if he hadn't!! just what i was thinking - so it gives me great pleasure to announce this thread as being a Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 senioronion hahaha what a nice name Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamc Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 i won't be there - tied up with the ball and chain plus - theres no onsite igloo and icecream on demand just what i was thinking - so it gives me great pleasure to announce this thread as being a senioronion hahaha what a nice name you never heardof "multi quote"?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 you never heardof "multi quote"?? i try to make it simpler for the village people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobSheffield Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 I have no experience of Dan as a mapper and im not out to flame, burn, hunt or kiss any ones ass etc etc etc It strikes me (and i may be way off the mark) that a mapper can map a car and it be really good and a vast improvement over before yet not be safe or as good as it COULD be, and potentially dangerous in fact. How many mappers are likely to see his finished work and comment upon it? So if a mapper was to get a lad come to him saying 'i have no clue, just make it fast' he can throw some tricks at it, knowing full well it wont ever be checked to see if its safe or not. What if someone who DOES know what he is talking about, went there and found he had not done half the things that were asked? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooquicktostop Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 Ok I am getting fed up of this now ! Michel, you state clearly that you restrict the boost that your cars are mapped to, in My case i asked Dan to give me a 'safe map' this was agreed at 1.2 bar with or without NOS and 1.5 bar without, I was not present like yourself at the session, Dan clearly states in his post the car failed at 1.75bar, how is that a 'safe map' I dont know thats why I asked the forum I did not loose a tyre here or break a spark plug, I lost the whole bloody engine including a just rebuild head. I wanted some answers and was told this stuff just happens sometimes, I dont feel that is a good enough answer, if it let go at 1.5 bar fine thats my problem but it did not, it let go at .25 bar above what I asked for, and was told that mapping above is normal to get a consistent map, well I would have expected any mapper to warn me of that before hand because MANY people in the know have told me 1.75bar on a standard engine is asking for trouble Ok rant over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suprafan72 Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 I think this is spiraling out of control..... Points have been made.... and i think its up to the individuals concerned to sort this out one to one rather than the forum pouncing on it like a pack of wolves.. no disrespect... but it should be with the individuals concerned now to sort everything out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarkey Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 For the benefit for people like - that quickly scan through long posts. The editted version & in order : " Abit about me & the standards of customer cars that I work on PRIOR to work & safe limits POST work. "Branners : Agree with your decision. Can't have unauthorised traders trading on forum. My cars & customers cars are mapped by Dan. 25 years experience in motor industry. Dan's very Good. Branners: Agree with your decision. Can't have unauthorised traders on the forum. A .............. /vbb/images/smilies/bbcode_grin.gif Dan's great. I am 110% confident - because I KNOW the cars are 100% suitable for mapping." Another .............. /vbb/images/smilies/bbcode_grin.gif Phew! That was easier wasn't it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian R Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 Not to put the cat amongst the pigeons here but one question keeps popping into my head it's a retorical one BTW If I was mapper fantastic and had such great experience wouldn't I check the car was in acceptable condition before I started to map it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolarbag Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 If I was mapper fantastic and had such great experience wouldn't I check the car was in acceptable condition before I started to map it? In all fairness, there is only so much a mapper can do, its not his job to attend to the hardware....a mapper is that just a mapper. What folk dont seem to understand is, he is not conducting a turn key operation, throughout all the troubles people have posted up(with the exception of tqts) it has been a hardware fault. It is a business, he can only dedicate a certain amount of time for checks before it becomes less than profitable, I'm not backing up Dan here, I'm just stating what people should expect of all mappers. To be honest, I dont think the ban is going to trouble him much at all, he couldnt be arsed to give his views on problems, he can still view threads as a guest, he just cant plug his products through this forum...but didnt he only have like 25posts anyway? No one has mentioned anything about TF not being banned too, didnt they play a part and sometime marginially more of a part in a few breakdowns too?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 Why have one thread when you can have two.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michel lane Posted July 12, 2007 Author Share Posted July 12, 2007 Why did you start a new thread?? The other one isn't locked. And what's your point in the middle there??? Are you saying he made an engine and turbo combination work better with a standalone as opposed to the S-AFC it had before?? If that is your point then may I just say, I'd be quite annoyed if he hadn't!! What iam try to say is that its not just the tuners responsibility but the client /third party resonsibilty to make sure that the car is setup correctly before the tune. The apexi unit had not been tuned correctly as the ETG were 900+, I have found out that the wideband sensor is faulty therefore showing the wrong reading . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 Well that's great and yes it's the owners responsibility to make sure it's running well enough to be mapped....but in the case he blew up most recently it's cause he didn't follow the instructions of the client. Also his banning is for threatening legal action on behalf of AEM when they knew nothing of the recent issues...and of course because he was trading without a traders license. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michel lane Posted July 12, 2007 Author Share Posted July 12, 2007 Ok I am getting fed up of this now ! Michel, you state clearly that you restrict the boost that your cars are mapped to, in My case i asked Dan to give me a 'safe map' this was agreed at 1.2 bar with or without NOS and 1.5 bar without, I was not present like yourself at the session, Dan clearly states in his post the car failed at 1.75bar, how is that a 'safe map' I dont know thats why I asked the forum I did not loose a tyre here or break a spark plug, I lost the whole bloody engine including a just rebuild head. I wanted some answers and was told this stuff just happens sometimes, I dont feel that is a good enough answer, if it let go at 1.5 bar fine thats my problem but it did not, it let go at .25 bar above what I asked for, and was told that mapping above is normal to get a consistent map, well I would have expected any mapper to warn me of that before hand because MANY people in the know have told me 1.75bar on a standard engine is asking for trouble Ok rant over Iam only pointing out what he has done for me, i havent mentioned anyone else concerned, i do agree with what Branners has done on the basis of the traders account. Problems need to be resolved early especially before things like this happen. Yes I understand your anger and its a shame there has not been any explaination to why its happened. There should be an explaination . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michel lane Posted July 12, 2007 Author Share Posted July 12, 2007 Well that's great and yes it's the owners responsibility to make sure it's running well enough to be mapped....but in the case he blew up most recently it's cause he didn't follow the instructions of the client. Also his banning is for threatening legal action on behalf of AEM when they knew nothing of the recent issues...and of course because he was trading without a traders license. I have been following the thread on the engine that was blown and it was difficult to understand why Dan would progress that far in the tune, when from past experiance with him, he has always been the cautious person. Unfortunately unless he states his conclusions on why it happened, then we all feel that he did not follow the instructions given by the owner. As for the legal action, i did not know anything about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike B Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 it's a real shame that without an explanation from Dan none of us will ever know more details into the other side of the story, After all this he will probably be less inclined to speak about it ever again. Having an engine fail during a mapping session must be traumatic, I have never liked to see mine on the rollers, especially as my old car started missing at higher revs... but its a nescessary evil! It sounds like being a mapper is a precarious job, I wonder just how many "top level" mappers have lost engines.. How can you find out how fast you can ride your pushbike unless you fall off? I am gutted for tooquick though.. I would take the news worse than you I feel.. who knows - it could happen to any of us tomorrow. i do give a statement that while the cars are in my hands if the engine were to blow up i would be responsible for it. Michel has a point if he warrants the engine under it's mapping session having built it himself.. that is a big plus point to consider. Interestingly enough I have also witnessed a well known members single pulled off the dyno by a well known mapper mid tune.. he refused to go any further as he didn't like the sound of it.. a subsequent compression test found a loss on no 6 (post previous fuel pump failure). Well diagnosed and engine saved, so it can go the right way... That tuner also found himself up on the wall! Lets all be thankful we are still here and can drive following the sad news of late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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