Clarkey Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 may as well argue about the existence of God with a suicide bomber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 And this is why JohnA had the dubious honour of being the first person to ever go on my ignore list all that time ago. ... works both ways:d ...Still waiting for those pictures you'd post from the Shell forecourts:search:... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarkey Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 He's not on my ignore list .. I find his posts quite amusing. Mainly, because he's always giving the vibe that he's 100% convinced that his opinions are correct - and everyone else is just 100% wrong. Abit like Mycroft. Btw John, it's not just me who's noticed this as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbonut Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 This is not a technical thread so I don't mind if it leads to friendly banter. But if it were technical I doubt that we'd have any differences whatsoever. Technical issues are quite measurable and reproducable. Just like maths and physics. It is religious and political discussions that easily end up in everyone fighting with everyone else, all convinced that they alone are right. Peace, brother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Class One Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 works both ways:d ...Still waiting for those pictures you'd post from the Shell forecourts:search:... Was Ian a moderator then? Otherwise I smell BS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 Was Ian a moderator then? Otherwise I smell BS Eh? Ok can someone quote this particular one, I'm intrigued now -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Class One Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 And this is why JohnA had the dubious honour of being the first person to ever go on my ignore list all that time ago. -Ian works both ways:d Was Ian a moderator then? Otherwise I smell BS Eh? Ok can someone quote this particular one, I'm intrigued now -Ian Members can't place a forum moderator/trader/administrator on an ignore list. Which is why I call BS. With me now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul mac Posted July 11, 2007 Author Share Posted July 11, 2007 play nicely boys (i've allways wanted to say that) i think JohnA makes some good points i wish i had taken a high res pic of the manifold now it was that scary, it was purely the presense of the oil that the grit/sand had stuck to that alerted me, without the oil the shit would just pass through and you would never know, it was nasty, if you run a single with a hks you would never see this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 Paul, if you think I'm the only one, read this The link was on my site as I thought Race teams do these measurements often. However they are not always paranoid with the accelerated wear inside because the engines are routinely rebuilt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyb10supra Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 Although controversial and sometimes not to everyones liking John does make some good points and I think is a good member to have on here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandan Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 John please correct me if I've made any wrong assumptions...the accelerated wear you seem to have experienced when running the K+N was not on a fresh motor (new rings and honed bores). The relatively low drop in leakdown percentage with the paper filters was on a fresh motor. Surely there's nothing to say that you may have already had some particle ingress/wear/bore wash/ring seal issues just starting to happen when you changed to the K+N. The fact you're not comparing like for like doesn't make it a fair test in my eyes. Now don't get me wrong - I realise you weren't conducting air filter tests and this is just the way things panned out with engine build/filter choice and you've drawn some conclusions your leak down figures since then. However the leakdown %'s could have increased exactly as they did with the "K+N test" if you had a paper filter on that same used engine. Equally the figures may have held just as steady on the fresh motor if you had the K+N fitted and not the paper filter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian R Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 HKS mushroom have a good use tho'. They can be handy as door stops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 ...may as well argue about the existence of God with a suicide bomber... And since this is in 'chat' let's delve into this one as well:d A suicide bomber HAS to believe in God (or at the very least a Big cause) That's why he/she can be manipulated to trade this mortal life for a better one up in the heavens (with lots of rice, virgins etc) A bomber who doesn't believe in God would be egotistical and rational - trying to maximise earthly benefits for himself. Terrorists with purely political or economic agendas are like that. They would never blow themselves up. They'd either do everything from a safe distance, or manipulate some fanatical idiots to do it for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 . The relatively low drop in leakdown percentage with the paper filters was on a fresh motor. correct Surely there's nothing to say that you may have already had some particle ingress/wear/bore wash/ring seal issues just starting to happen when you changed to the K+N. Of course there was some wear already. There is always wear, when there's friction, we can't stop that (well, maybe with Slick50 lol) The fact you're not comparing like for like doesn't make it a fair test in my eyes. Who said it's a fair or scientific test? It isn't. Just a rough indicator of the accelerated wear with a non-pleated paper element. For a proper test you need two new engines, one running paper filters and one the aftermarket. Every 5K miles you write down the leakdown figures. After 100K miles or similar usage you plot and compare them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandan Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 Who said it's a fair or scientific test? It isn't. Just a rough indicator of the accelerated wear with a non-pleated paper element. John - that's my point. It's arguably a very poor indicator. The wear already existing in the used motor could well mean that the subsequent wear rate is higher than on a freshly built motor. That alone could explain why the paper element seemed to permit less wear as suggested by the leakdown percentage. I have never done any back to back testing on oiled vs paper elements and I never will - I have neither the time or the interest. My engines (excl the Supra) come apart fairly regular (because I can't stop fiddling/improving/changing things) to the point where worrying about an extra 1 or 2% leakdown is never an issue as honing and re-ringing (or even re-boring) is no big deal if required. I can't comment accurately on the filtration properties nor the apparent subsequent effect on leakdown figures so I am not going to advocate any manufacturer in particluar - I have no evidence to support any opinion. I merely wanted to point out that your figures are potentially flawed and misleading, although no doubt nice to see in a world of speculation and internet heroes. For a proper test you need two new engines, one running paper filters and one the aftermarket. Every 5K miles you write down the leakdown figures. After 100K miles or similar usage you plot and compare them Thankfully I've moved away from this sort of thing (work wise) and now have a far more intersting life. If I absolutely wanted or HAD to know then I would do this. I'm really not that interested though as life is too short. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 ... as life is too short. indeed. and with this sort of filters, engine life is even shorter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 Members can't place a forum moderator/trader/administrator on an ignore list. Which is why I call BS. With me now? Aha, yes. I was indeed a moderator back then, so you lucky people can't ignore me. Even if you claim to have -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 We've successfully been ignoring each other for quite some time. It worked well. Why the change of heart all of a sudden? Are we friends now or something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy-No-Knee Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 ......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uzthedentist Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 hks europe recommend you change the foam filter element every 2500-3000 miles. How many people actually do that whom have a hks setup though, i doubt very many Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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