AEM v E-manage

[dude]

CJ as far as someone running high HP on an E Manage you know Matts figures were very impressive on the dyno , its only because he's a pussy that he wont turn it up more !!!

Re if they were the same price or if the AEM were free but i had to pay for only mapping id still go for the E Manage because i do not think their is anyone in the UK that understands the AEM well enough to sort any major problems with it , if Justin moves here i may reconsider !!!!!

consider how much Leon Green has in his car in time and money why do you think his AEM is in a drawer in his office ???? and he runs an Autronic !!!!aside from other things he has a pressure guage monitering his gearbox and obviously didnt like watching it die in real time !!!

The thing that puts me off the AEM is that due to lack of knowledge it will take a LONG time to get a car sorted 100% with one in UNLESS you get someone like Justin to do it , even then in 2 days i doubt he would get one 100% finished , with an Autronic there is a very respected tuner in the UK who CAN get your car properly mapped and the auto box seems to be a lot happier as some stock ECU functions are retained .

 

Dude:flame Dev

[Guest Terry S]

Guys please remember that the US guys are rightly AEM pro as they need to remove their AFM. The JDM car here do not need to do that, hence the e-manage becomes more viable.

 

Dude, the AEM does do knock control, but whether it works as well as stock................

 

Standalones will always be superior to piggybacks, once properly tuned, but that is the key, properly tuned. How long do you guys think Mr Toyota spent perfecting cold start maps etc, 1 hr, I don't think so. To make a standalone car drive as well as a stock car would take a lot of effort. The WOT stuff is the easy part, making the car drivable is a different matter.

 

Usmann, Autronics are also used by Keith Cowie ( 9.9 fastest 1/4 TOTB2), Rod Tarry ( 201 mph 10sec Cosworth) Leon, Loads of the quickest EVO's ( E.G. winner of TOTB3 handling circuit).

 

I have nothing against the AEM at all, I think it is great VFM, but don't expect it to behave like a stock car straight away. As for the gearbox issues ( autobox), until I hear from people I trust in the US that it is sorted ( and I am sure it will be eventually) I will reserve judgement.

[TLicense]

Originally posted by Matt Harwood

Yes, Ian did have troubles, but remember, Ian and I were one of the first, (that I'd heard of at the time), in the country to successfully run the E-manage on the Supra, And CJ's has only a minor glitch with his...(and I think that's just a slight mapping error). Not quite the same as destroying gearboxes and having running problems...

 

Matt,

 

Again obviously my opinion is biased, but...

 

In the same way that Ian had troubles and that you were amongst the first to run E-manage, the same is also true about the AEM.

Obviosuly you guys are well into E-manage tuning now, but can't the same be said about Thor and the AEM? Anyone had any problems with a car they've mapped?

 

I don't know why Leon has decided to go to the Autronic as opposed to the AEM, but my own personal experience of Leon's AEM tuning did, I unfortunately, and rather reluctantly have to say leave a little to be desired. BUT as he was/is not an autorised AEM tuner, and was simply "doing his best" I can live with that fact. Whether this was contributal to his problem with the AEM, and the reason for him to swap to the Autronic, I don't know.

 

With regards to John's problems, I don't think he has had any dealings with AEM themselves, or an authorised UK dealer. From what I understand having spoken to John quite a lot about this, he was done over by whoever supplied his basemap, which were not AEM. That would be the equivalent of loading say a GTR basemap onto the E-manage and then slagging the E-manage off when it wrecked your motor. At the end of the day, and I'm sorry to say it John, you, or whoever installed the map that did the damage should have checked that the map was correct before starting the key, as it explains in the manual. (Which is online by the way!)

 

I totally agree that with the costs involved, depending on the level of tune you intend to have the E-manage may well be the better option, but as I mentioned before, if you want to future proof yourself then a stand alone is the only option.

 

I personally am very happy with the AEM. I'm happy because I know that it works for me as it is, no matter what HP I make on my car it will work, and that as the software is constantly being developed it will only get better. Untill I find another set-up that can do all of those, I'm going to stick with the AEM.

 

Out of interest though, what advantages would the Autronic have over the AEM? I know you need to build it's own harness, but that's not a advantage in my eyes, I mean, afterall I could build a harness for the AEM, but there is no need to. Just interested....

 

regards,

[Guest Terry S]

So Tony are you saying that your car drives 100%, all the time, like stock on the AEM?? If so congrats.

 

The only real advantage of the Autronic apart from the fact that it has a long proven track record, and has never AFAIK had a single hardware failure, is that the guy here who does them knows the stuff back to front, inside out.

 

FYI Leon didn't map his AEM, he paid an ex Motec mapper to do it. The reason he junked it was that in his opinion, it destroyed 2 gearboxes, and never felt right. You only need to look at his 1/4 mile times before and after to see the car is running better now than ever. Oh and it hasn't lost a box yet.

 

Again I have no issue with the AEM. VFM wise it is excellent. I just don't want anyone thinking that going standalone is an easy route, or that their car will drive like stock after an hour.

[Guest Usmann A]

LOL,

gets interesting.

Terry, taking one hour to road map(meaning doing drivability, crusing, etc) someones as you've done it soo many times ,you know what values to put in already,hes done the R&D on his own car, and thus doesnt need to spend days on customers car, then allowing dyno and road tuning to finish it off, which was another 2 hours.

I belive that Justin does motec, autronic, etc haltech.

And lets just say, alot of mappers think they know the AEM, but not quite, and just cant get thier heads round its software.

Lets just say, I know some inside stuff. re. AEM

 

Now,yes I only used the guy that BL in the US use to map thier cars. I dont think they would be using any old body would they? I mean, c'mon guys, he cant be a 1 hour wonder ...

 

oh btw, did I mention, it started and idled first time, and even the abbey lads were quite impressed with what Mr. Nenni can do.

 

Terry/dude, if your implying that Justin cannot tune, perhaps you should check with Headquaters too see what they think of him/and the AEM .

 

Ps, it drove like stock,

 

 

 

 

Ali

 

[TLicense]

Terry,

 

As much as I would love to be able to say "yes, the car's 100% right" it isn't. However, and this is very much the point I'm trying to make, it's not been mapped by anyone who has been trained in anyway by AEM. Leon mapped it to start with, and I've tinkered with it since.

There are two things that are wrong, one is down to the fact that the car has not been mapped by anyone who IMHO knows how to use the software to the extent reuqired to get the final 1% of smoothness out of it (ie Leon and myself) but I'm sure a couple of hours at Thor will get that sorted.

The second problem IS I believe a glitch with the ECU/software. What happens is the IAC valve seems to park itself when it should be in idle control. I don't know why this happens, and it may well be a problem with MY car not the AEM. As I said I think it's down to the AEM, but may be due to my car. Again this may be something that a couple of hours at Thor could fix.

 

What I'm trying to say is, if you sold me an E-manage, and I mapped it myself and blew the engine up, if I came to you and said the E-manage was rubbish, you would say that I should have got someone in the know to map it. I'm saying that the AEM users who have had problems with it should have got someone with full knowledge of the system to map it. If there was no-one with a full knowledge (and untill recently there wasn't - but the same can be said of the E-manage) then if it goes wrong, you've just got to accept you took a chance and it didn't pay off. With this in mind anyone who was looking to buy the AEM should realise that only Thor can map the AEM correctly, but can't the exact same thing be said of E-manage in that only Ian and Matt have first hand experience of mapping it on the Supra?

 

With regards to Leon's gearbox issues, I wonder if he would have had the same problems, and how his times would have faired if he had got Pete to map it for him?

 

As far as the Autronic, I know it has a race proven record, but so has the AEM (Hasn't Stephen Papa... what's his name run sub 7 seconds?). I was more interested in what extra capabilities your extra money gets you.

 

At the end of the day I agree, it will always take longer to map a standalone, but I think you'd be surprised at how quickly it can be done, and if you're planning to push your car that little bit more it's going to be more capable than any piggy back.

 

Regards

 

Tony

[MONKEYmark]

justin has got a great reputation as a top tuner, there is also that other guy called blkmagic he is self taught.

also horsepowerfreaks seem to be well up on tuning the aem

getting a big hp supra to drive like stock and that big power viper.

 

if you go on there site they have vids. lots of people have taken lots of systems far.

 

what sort of price is a motec? the crd supra has one on his car.

 

i would have thought that pete at thor will get to grips with the aem as he seems a clever bloke. what about darrens car seems to do the biz and got good power on optimax.

i want the aem too, its expensive but has a lot of features. not that i would know about them.

 

got a map off a usa guy that justin has done for a bl 71kit.

supra store sells maps for $ just would not trust them with there bad reputation.

[TLicense]

Originally posted by Usmann A

Terry/dude, if your implying that Justin cannot tune, perhaps you should check with Headquaters too see what they think of him/and the AEM .

 

Ali,

 

I don't think either Terry or Dude were questioning Justin's abilities, but it's probably beyond most poeple's budget to fly the guy over from the states.

 

I think the point is more about whether the AEM has:

 

1. Inherent problems,

2. Local (I mean in the country) support.

3: Is worth the extra money over an E-manage.

 

To kinda summarise my above post:

 

1. Not that can be proven to be down to the AEM - most likely (IMHO) user errors.

2. Yes there is support (Pete at Thor)

3. Don't know as I don't know how much the E-manage costs, but I believe Thor has supply/install/map times on their site.

 

Cheers

 

Tony

[Guest Usmann A]

Tony, put it this way, if you can go for a standalone, you can have Justin come and map your car, same thing as getting it tuned here,its not insanely stupid cost.

 

like I offered a while back, if a few people got innvolved, then itd be a fraction of getting it tuned from here.

[TLicense]

Err, I already have an AEM. But seeing as I can't afford to take it Thor, Justin's going to have to undercut them by a long shot before I can get it mapped by someone who really knows what they are doing.

 

Bloody housebuying, has soaked up all the supra funds.

[Matt Harwood]

Another benefit of the E-manage as I saw it, was that it was relatively simple to use.

I had the E-manage on my car and successfully mapped for low throttle/cruising, and safe at high throttle within a couple of weeks.

 

Don't misunderstand me, I'm more than aware that a standalone is superior, but for me, the E-manage made more viable sense.

[dude]

:

 

oh btw, did I mention, it started and idled first time, and even the abbey lads were quite impressed with what Mr. Nenni can do.

 

Terry/dude, if your implying that Justin cannot tune, perhaps you should check with Headquaters too see what they think of him/and the AEM .

 

Ps, it drove like stock,

 

 

 

 

Ali

 

[/b]

 

Usmann if you read my post before posting yourself you will actually see that i said i would only consider an AEM if Justin tuned it and more to the point lived in the UK , Where did i say he couldnt map a car ????? I said i am not happy that anyone in the UK could sort an ODDBALL problem out !!!

If i had a 6 spd than i would consider an AEM but CJ is auto , gop back and read my posts U , the apology is accepted !!!

 

Dude:flame Dev

[Guest Usmann A]

Dude, its ok mate. I know when im right.

[dude]

Originally posted by Usmann A

Dude, its ok mate. I know when im right.

 

what does that mean U ???? according to you i said Justin cant map a car , show me where me or Terry said that or at least be man enough to admit your wrong , if someone read that in your post and hadnt read from the start what would they think .

 

Dude:flame Dev

[dude]

Originally posted by dude

The thing that puts me off the AEM is that due to lack of knowledge it will take a LONG time to get a car sorted 100% with one in UNLESS you get someone like Justin to do it ,

 

Dude:flame Dev

[Guest Usmann A]

John, FFS is was joshing about being right.

 

But this comment ...

The thing that puts me off the AEM is that due to lack of knowledge it will take a LONG time to get a car sorted 100% with one in UNLESS you get someone like Justin to do it , even then in 2 days i doubt he would get one 100% finished ,

 

Made me come to my conclusion, that you think that Justin would not 100% finish a car, when he says he can do 2 a day. You forgot that bit in your quote.

 

also this comment ..

 

or that their car will drive like stock after an hour.

 

But in reality, it did drive like stock and not even after an hour to be precise.

 

Maybe im reading in between the lines too much guys, if soo, I apologise.

 

But is seemed that you were quick to rave about Autronic, and quick to blame AEM for autoboxes failures, lIke Tony says you cannot blame improper use of a component down to the unit itself.

If you state yourself that we have no support here for the AEM, they why incidently blame it for Box failures,when you know it wasent being tuned right, doesnt make sense?

[TLicense]

I don't know if it will be a similar price for the Supra, but Fensport actually sell a motech M4 ecu for the GT4 for £995, or £1245 with the M4 Pro Upgrade. They charge £325 to install and map. However the lambda unit is a bit pricey at £800.

 

If the motech runs on the same principle as the AEM, that all the units are essentially the same but have different plugs depending on the car, and then you customise it for your make and model using the software then that seems a bargain doesn't it?

 

The only advantage over the AEM that I can see, other than the fact every decent tuning shop have tuned lots of Motech units before, is that you can have a pit lane speed limit. Anyone know of any other features?

 

Of course one downside is that you'll not be on the supra development learning curve

 

Just throwing another product with a VERY well known reputation into the mix...

 

Regards

 

Tony

[dude]

Usmann

how can he tune for cold start when you only get about 2 goes in a day if you dont run the car in between ???

I dont doubt Justins ability to tune an AEM at all especially in a 6 spd , saying he tunes BL's does Kean still run an AEM ????

I think with you being 6 spd you made a good choice , my reason for going Autronic would be

1) Terry is very Au Fait with the unit and able to sort most probs

2) we have a very respected tuner RESIDENT in the UK

 

Will you be getting Justin back to re-map the new engine dude , if so what would he charge to totally map an AEM if i went for one ???

 

Dude:flame Dev

[dude]

Originally posted by TLicense

I don't know if it will be a similar price for the Supra, but Fensport actually sell a motech M4 ecu for the GT4 for £995, or £1245 with the M4 Pro Upgrade. They charge £325 to install and map. However the lambda unit is a bit pricey at £800.

 

If the motech runs on the same principle as the AEM, that all the units are essentially the same but have different plugs depending on the car, and then you customise it for your make and model using the software then that seems a bargain doesn't it?

 

The only advantage over the AEM that I can see, other than the fact every decent tuning shop have tuned lots of Motech units before, is that you can have a pit lane speed limit. Anyone know of any other features?

 

Of course one downside is that you'll not be on the supra development learning curve

 

Just throwing another product with a VERY well known reputation into the mix...

 

Regards

 

Tony

 

The Motech unit for the sup is more like £2500 ++ fitting etc , ive allready spoken to Adrian and Guy (cpl) re this Tony

 

Dude:flame Dev

[Guest Terry S]

Usmann wind yer neck in eh, I never said anything about Justin's ability to tune FFS. You and I have had exactly the same conversation before on AIM. I am sure Justin is a good guy. I don't believe he could have a road perfect map from scratch in an hour, but then I am a skeptic.

 

Chill, and read the replies how they were meant please.

[CJ]

Just picking up on the Justin side of things. Would it be possible for him to have had a vehicle spec sent to him prior to coming over that would have allowed him to create a map to then be uploaded into the AEM? Would that have then meant he was able to ge the car running well so quickly?

 

Or am I talking through my arse?

[Guest Terry S]

I am sure he could have been working from a very close base map CJ

[TLicense]

Originally posted by dude

The Motech unit for the sup is more like £2500 ++ fitting etc , ive allready spoken to Adrian and Guy (cpl) re this Tony

 

Dude:flame Dev

 

 

Gulp £2500 I take it that it's a completly different unit to the one for the GT4 then, otherwise those connector plugs for the Supe are bloody steep!

 

Did you ask Adrian what the differences were?

 

Cheers

 

Tony

 

PS: I hope you all noticed how I'm desperately trying to keep this on subject

[CJ]

Originally posted by Terry S

I am sure he could have been working from a very close base map CJ

 

Mmm...I wonder just how close the base map would be? The reason I ask is that I have been chatting to Pete Betts about the AEM and he reckons that it will take about 2 days to map it all properly.

[Guest Usmann A]

Right,

Terry, we are not talking from scratch, with a basmap of course.

Looks like I read too far into things. My mistake.

 

Dude, He can do coldstart, as he knows what values to put in, to what tables, and what bits do what, and how the supra will react, because hes prob seen most variety of setups.

 

I know its hard to belive guys, but you need to, meet, see him in action, he is the Daddy.(as im raving on about him, as you can see)

 

Its not just talk, my dad and I were amazed at how well it drove,I mean you had to be there.

 

Makes you think, I know why the US guys are supra years ahead, its all to do with people like justin. So clued up, its un beliveable.