Broken engine pictures

[dangerous brain]

So on a tuned engine an aftermarket knock monitoring system might be an idea then?? Are we talking huge money for this then? Just so I know, the piston crowns are they normally dimpled like that or is that pitting from detonation?? Also I had been led to believe by a man thats on holidays for a few years that the iridium plugs are a bad thing and that the ceramics fall out of them under det conditions. He then showed me my old engine with a whacking great hole in a piston where he'd gotten det and the centre of the spark plug had hit the piston. He said to use coppers until you were sure you had no det as they don't fall apart. He knew a thing or two as he ran the first UK car to a 10 second quarter so I took that as gospel.

Have you managed to strip that engine down yourself?? If you can do that kind of work yourself then at least some of the costs of this mishap will be less.

Do people think that it would be cheaper to fix the engine or replace it with a second hand item?? How much does it cost to fit bigger better pistons etc and is that actually an option here?

I am having my car mapped in a couple of weeks and am aware that similar things may happen as I stated before it happens to all the tuners at some point in time. Knowing what it could cost before I squeeze a bit more boost out is always a good idea.

[Ian C]

Regarding knock sensing/warning - I tried a HKS Knock Amp, it was expensive, overcomplex, and I couldn't get it to work despite a lot of attempts It'll be on eBay at some point The support was zero. Absolutely nothing on the web, HKS's site, hardly anyone else has one and those that do only use the wideband function for some bizarre reason.

 

It wouldn't self-calibrate, it'd just come up with "err" on the display - not much use.

 

I've now got a KnockLite instead, looks much better so far but I haven't had time to fit it yet

 

-Ian

[Muffleman]

Yeah Dude suggested I run coppers too. Thing is, a mapper should never get to Det, THAT'S the problem. You can't blame the mapper for mechanical failures etc, but you can blame them for detonation through over aggressive timing.

 

Are you having yours mapped on a dyno ? Who is doing it ?

[dangerous brain]

Er no comment lol

[Chris Wilson]

I use these, the seller is a Motec UK mapper, of the highest calibre.

 

http://www.racecarsdirect.com/viewlisting.php?view=10312

[Thorin]

I've now got a KnockLite instead, looks much better so far but I haven't had time to fit it yet

 

-Ian

 

I started reading your post and thought, I'm sure I remember reading him mention something about another knock meter thing, I must post to ask about that...

 

How much is the knocklite? Hurry up and get it fitted

[Muffleman]

I use these, the seller is a Motec UK mapper, of the highest calibre.

 

http://www.racecarsdirect.com/viewlisting.php?view=10312

 

Seller Rowedrive, Dave Rowe ??? If so then yes, good mapper

[Thorin]

I use these, the seller is a Motec UK mapper, of the highest calibre.

 

http://www.racecarsdirect.com/viewlisting.php?view=10312

 

Direct link the the knockbox website for the lazy people

http://www.theknockbox.com.au/

 

Just having a look at that now...

[michael]

Seller Rowedrive, Dave Rowe ??? If so then yes, good mapper

 

Tells terrible jokes when he's drunk though.

 

[Chris Wilson]

http://www.chriswilson.tv/knock.wma for what knock sounds like on one of these. Timing at 4000 RPM, 17 degrees, no knock, 27 dgrees, lots of knock, back to 17 degrees, no knock. Lots of info on the Knock Box site.

[Class One]

Yeah Dude suggested I run coppers too. Thing is, a mapper should never get to Det, THAT'S the problem. You can't blame the mapper for mechanical failures etc, but you can blame them for detonation through over aggressive timing.

 

Are you having yours mapped on a dyno ? Who is doing it ?

 

Er no comment lol

 

Unlike you to be so unforthright.

 

So how does it stand with mappers and liability then. Do you have to sign a disclaimer prior to the mapping session. Are you advised by the mapper about the risks involved prior to the session. Does the mapper accept any liability whatsoever?

 

 

Just like when you have your diesel vehicle mot'd there's a BIG sign usually in the public viewing area about making sure that your car's cambelt must be within the specified manufacturers service schedule as they will not accept any liability for cambelt failure during the emissions test.

[dangerous brain]

I think its almost an unwritten rule. I don't recall any mention of at your own risk etc last time I was there but the pre-mapping moments are nervous ones and clarity about this is vague in my mind. I am pretty sure though that its held as known that if it goes pop in mapping the customer accepts liability for that. You've chosen the mapper and the mods on your car and you choose to have it mapped. Thats why reputation is so so so important in this business. Dan will be finishing the map on my car as arranged I just didn't want to get into that in this thread but I have nothing to hide and in my mind nothing to fear other than my own cars strengths or weakness's

[Todd]

Just like when you have your diesel vehicle mot'd there's a BIG sign usually in the public viewing area about making sure that your car's cambelt must be within the specified manufacturers service schedule as they will not accept any liability for cambelt failure during the emissions test.

 

Is it them same procedure for a petrol?

 

I was present when they did the emissions test on my coupe, was having to restrain myself from topping the tester as the car was being held at very high revs for quite some time, first time I'd ever seen it done

 

Would suspect it's even more hard on the car than a RR!

[Steve]

http://www.chriswilson.tv/knock.wma for what knock sounds like on one of these. Timing at 4000 RPM, 17 degrees, no knock, 27 dgrees, lots of knock, back to 17 degrees, no knock. Lots of info on the Knock Box site.

 

Thanks Chris, always wanted to know what it sounded like.

[Ian C]

Thanks Chris, always wanted to know what it sounded like.

 

Actually that's electronically filtered. It sounds a lot different if you are monitoring with plain old det cans. I call them "spings" and "snicks", snicks being the early stuff. It kinda sounds like the ball bearing noise when you shake a can of paint.

 

Well, it kind of sounds like shaking a can of paint to a backgroud cacophony of valvetrain and drivetrain noise

 

-Ian

[Steve]

Actually that's electronically filtered. It sounds a lot different if you are monitoring with plain old det cans. I call them "spings" and "snicks", snicks being the early stuff. It kinda sounds like the ball bearing noise when you shake a can of paint.

 

Well, it kind of sounds like shaking a can of paint to a backgroud cacophony of valvetrain and drivetrain noise

 

-Ian

 

Well when mine is back on the road i will have to have a listen when i get you to map it

[Ian C]

Well I'll be testing mine with that KnockLite so I'll have to try and artificially induce knock at low revs low/no boost by winding on the timing. I'll be listening with the cans quite intently, if I can fangle it I'll record what I hear on the laptop as well and post it up. Soon™

[Steve]

Well I'll be testing mine with that KnockLite so I'll have to try and artificially induce knock at low revs low/no boost by winding on the timing. I'll be listening with the cans quite intently, if I can fangle it I'll record what I hear on the laptop as well and post it up. Soon™

 

Thanks mate

[Branners]

I think its almost an unwritten rule. I don't recall any mention of at your own risk etc last time I was there but the pre-mapping moments are nervous ones and clarity about this is vague in my mind. I am pretty sure though that its held as known that if it goes pop in mapping the customer accepts liability for that. You've chosen the mapper and the mods on your car and you choose to have it mapped. Thats why reputation is so so so important in this business. Dan will be finishing the map on my car as arranged I just didn't want to get into that in this thread but I have nothing to hide and in my mind nothing to fear other than my own cars strengths or weakness's

 

its true that putting a car on a dyno is risky. However I would expect a mapper to ensure they took all the necessary precautions to keep my engine in one piece. Mapping to 17% above what was requested is not how I would expect it to be done, and melting a piston in that way means something wasnt being watched.

 

As Dan has not been in contact with tooquick and hasnt defended himself on the forum then I am probably going to have to remove all trace of him from the forum and put up a sticky post explaining what problems were encountered with this car and that we have no confidence in his mapping abilities. Also worth bearing in mind this is not the only incident that I know about with Dan, but its the only one that has gone this public.

 

JB

[Steve]

its true that putting a car on a dyno is risky. However I would expect a mapper to ensure they took all the necessary precautions to keep my engine in one piece. Mapping to 17% above what was requested is not how I would expect it to be done, and melting a piston in that way means something wasnt being watched.

 

As Dan has not been in contact with tooquick and hasnt defended himself on the forum then I am probably going to have to remove all trace of him from the forum and put up a sticky post explaining what problems were encountered with this car and that we have no confidence in his mapping abilities. Also worth bearing in mind this is not the only incident that I know about with Dan, but its the only one that has gone this public.

 

JB

 

 

 

Tell us more JB

[dangerous brain]

Maybe that needs another thread.

[Branners]

Tell us more JB

 

its the same as always. We hear about problems with traders but can only save the information up for when the noise gets too much and we have to act. If we are seen to act without having the background information then we get fanned to death.

 

If members ask us not to go public with it then we wont, but we will save it up. If anybody encounters problems with traders we do prefer to hear about it, either in public or via PM.

 

JB

[Steve]

Without going into details then. Are there more problems that have occured like this one then ?

[SUPRASUZUKI]

its the same as always. We hear about problems with traders but can only save the information up for when the noise gets too much and we have to act. If we are seen to act without having the background information then we get fanned to death.

 

If members ask us not to go public with it then we wont, but we will save it up. If anybody encounters problems with traders we do prefer to hear about it, either in public or via PM.

 

JB

 

 

I can understand the reluctance to go public too early, but I'd be well p1ssed off if my engine was wrecked by a tuner only to find out later that said tuner had got previous bad form.

 

Is there a way to avoid this situation in future?

[Branners]

it would be an interesting discussion, but at this point we can see no way of making it simpler.

 

Even now with the comments in this thread people are still happy to take their car to Dan (and that may say something for his level of expertise), and Dan has been in touch to say that nothing he did was wrong or out of the ordinary.

 

So even now it looks like I may have stepped in too early but who's to say. Certainly the trader is less than pleased.

 

It was hoped that the trader feedback process and the dispute resolution forum could bring a lot more of the disputed situations out in the open but it hasnt. Its only when somebody is willing to go public in this way that it all comes out and by then its sometimes too late for many others.

 

JB