Wez Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 Tony I agree with what you are saying but from my playing with this feature det tends to stand out from normal engine noise and when mapping you should have the knock voltages on display, even with the knock control turned off the sensors are still functioning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLicense Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 Agreed. To be honest, when setting the fuel and ignition map det cans should be used anyway, and to be fair, from my experience of Dan's mapping, he did use them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 There could be a seperate thread raised here, whats most safest, a wet or dry nitrous kit..... I know the wet kits tend to be more affective, but they tend to be more prone to failure (i.e fuel solonoid failure) where dry kits rely's on fuel pressure... I do agree with Homer's comments that it is down to the mapper on doing a good fuel/ignition correction mapon nitrous activation.. the ideal would be to have contstant ideal bottle pressure (i.e bottle electric blanket to maintain the ideal pressure) and a map to suit nitrous activation IMO if you put nitrous on your car you'll almost certainly end up blowing it up. It's ONLY usage, IMO, is to pre spool a big turbo in drag race cars. On the road it's a disaster waiting to happen, and a pub talk gimmick. Most people seem to have enough trouble getting an engine mapped to run properly on petrol, let alone trying to map for nitrous, too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 Unless you actually get very close to, or actually hear a bit of det you will have a problem optimizing the ignition map. Blow ups are a risk anyone modding any engine must accept and take on the chin, unless something really dumb takes place. What's the old adage, if you can't stand the heat, keep out of the kitchen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 Yep I had to pay for the mapping session adding insult to injury? I can see the issue both from the side of the tuner and the punter. My view is that the tuner should have prepared a disclaimer form for the punter to sign under such circumstances. Yes it would lead to less people taking the plunge and opting for the dynotune (some would undoubtly chicken out), but it would also lead to less 'blame apportioning' problems once the engine has been damaged. The final tuner can't be responsible for stale fuel in the tank, badly fitted engine parts or such --- but without some form of customer liability insurance neither can he be risking meltdown on someone else's bank balance. Ugly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 A lot of talk about knock sensing using certain stand alone ECUs, not sure how reliable Toyota sensors are, but i do know that they like a lot of others are built to a spec and budget to listen for a pre determined frequency, now one thing you have to conceder is that as an engine wears and/or is tuned for that matter, the frequency generated can change, making det sensing a bit hit or miss! sensing det when there wasn't any and retarding the ignition, and also interpreting engine noise as det, makes things difficult to say the least,i know this was defiantly the case on some of the Nissan's i have had. IMO det cans are the best option, unless you want to spend £££ on sophisticated det management systems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_have Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 adding insult to injury? I can see the issue both from the side of the tuner and the punter. My view is that the tuner should have prepared a disclaimer form for the punter to sign under such circumstances. Yes it would lead to less people taking the plunge and opting for the dynotune (some would undoubtly chicken out), but it would also lead to less 'blame apportioning' problems once the engine has been damaged. The final tuner can't be responsible for stale fuel in the tank, badly fitted engine parts or such --- but without some form of customer liability insurance neither can he be risking meltdown on someone else's bank balance. Ugly. Well said. (I thought your name was John ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaz1 Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 Well said. (I thought your name was John ) ha ha class:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 There is a world of difference between hearing a bit of det while tuning, and the damage shown in those pictures though. If you are pushing the envelope, one ping should make you back off immediately in my opinion. That there was sustained heavy det for a good few seconds, and det is a self-feeding runaway thing, so you can catch it early before it does anything bad, it doesn't start off knocking chunks out of pistons. And CW, if you asked for 1.5bar off your mapper and the engine let go while at 1.75bar, what would your response be? Just curious Anyway we can argue about nitrous and what boost levels are OK on pump fuel and who asked for what boost levels and the justifications thereof, or petrol quality or whatever until we are blue in the face. The simple fact of the matter is that that damage was done on the dyno while it was being mapped, but you can hear det come on for whatever reason and easily stop the run! Those pistons were wrecked by det, you can hear it when mapping and call it all off, the only reason I can see that it got lunched is because no-one was listening out for detonation taking place. -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 Ooooh, I am not getting into all that Ian C, oh no, no no Too busy suing myself for the rod out of bed at Anglesey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 Ooooh, I am not getting into all that Ian C, oh no, no no Too busy suing myself for the rod out of bed at Anglesey Good luck, I hear he's a tricky customer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 Good luck, I hear he's a tricky customer He's such a nice guy I have decided to let the matter drop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 The simple fact of the matter is that that damage was done on the dyno while it was being mapped, but you can hear det come on for whatever reason and easily stop the run! Those pistons were wrecked by det, you can hear it when mapping and call it all off, the only reason I can see that it got lunched is because no-one was listening out for detonation taking place. -Ian That hits the nail on the head really. Good post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul mac Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 pardon my ignorance but who does this "Dan" work for ? i think it would be usefull for peeps to know and then they can make their own judgement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 He's freelance, you can hire him directly. He does a lot of work for TurboFit but he's not employed by them or anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul mac Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 He's freelance, you can hire him directly. He does a lot of work for TurboFit but he's not employed by them or anyone. thanks Jake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Class One Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 He's freelance, you can hire him directly. He does a lot of work for TurboFit but he's not employed by them or anyone. Where is the RR that he uses Jake? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustGav Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 He seems to have links to Ji-Kan http://www.jikan.co.uk Not sure if they are currently, but there was some posts up on the AEM forum from a Dan Turner in Northampton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooquicktostop Posted July 3, 2007 Author Share Posted July 3, 2007 Where is the RR that he uses Jake? He uses the Marlin Motorsport RR in Bletchley, near Milton Keynes, I think he has set himself up there now with a small area of the garage as his, cant remember what he trades under? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregsupra4 Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 Advanced Motorsport, is what Dan is operating under out of there. He is still affiliated with Jikan for parts I believe but as haven't spoken to him in over 2 months cant confirm that...as have been very poorly... just felt a bit better so thought I'd pop on and have a look see whats been going on.......!!!!!!!!! by the way this is Sam not Greg forgot to change the user login id....sorry..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 Dean, has Dan spoken to you more about this yet? Seeing as he hasnt replied on here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooquicktostop Posted July 4, 2007 Author Share Posted July 4, 2007 Dean, has Dan spoken to you more about this yet? Seeing as he hasnt replied on here. No he has not made any contact, He did tell me he wanted to see the injectors when he had the chance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 No he has not made any contact, He did tell me he wanted to see the injectors when he had the chance So he can blame the injectors i suppose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 So he can blame the injectors i suppose Looking at your plugs i seriously doubt it was a dogey injector. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 Looking at your plugs i seriously doubt it was a dogey injector. I know that, hense the smiley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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