suprafan72 Posted July 1, 2007 Share Posted July 1, 2007 Why, does the wastegate and EBC suddenly forget how to work??? I've never heard of nitrous spiking the boost...please can you give some examples. Personally I don't believe this to be the case IF the wastegate and EBC are setup correctly. Im not sure on how Dean Turbo Boost was controlled either? was it EBC or did the AEM control it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted July 1, 2007 Share Posted July 1, 2007 Its a tough call, I had an N20 Car that i ran nitrous on and it was very difficult to keep maintained steady boost as nitrous does make boost harder to control and set during different ambient temperature conditions.... You are right, it does spike the boost, i have it on mine and the boost raises from 1.2bar to 1.4bar if i have the bottle right up to pressure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Posted July 1, 2007 Share Posted July 1, 2007 I assume the AEM has a boost cut safety feature that can be set to prevent dangerous over boosting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted July 1, 2007 Share Posted July 1, 2007 Jesus guys, you need to find a new mapper!! N02 is not uncontrolable. It's only a question of boost and controlled supply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustGav Posted July 1, 2007 Share Posted July 1, 2007 No, that’s not right at all. The mapper should configure the N02 input after the initial map is done, in no way should it be mapped in such a way that the N02 uncontrollably raised the boost. If it does that, again it comes down to the mapper correctly configuring the N02 control. I could be mistaken, however from memory I believe the AEM actually has a seperate map for things like that. You would have a plain map, and when the nitrous is activated a secondary overlay map is added. It has been a while since I looked at the software though, so I could be wrong on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted July 1, 2007 Share Posted July 1, 2007 I assume the AEM has a boost cut safety feature that can be set to prevent dangerous over boosting? Yes but if not set high enough then there is no point in having the Nos as everytime you use it it will hit fuel cut, Dan set up my nos on the dyno. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suprafan72 Posted July 1, 2007 Share Posted July 1, 2007 You are right, it does spike the boost, i have it on mine and the boost raises from 1.2bar to 1.4bar if i have the bottle right up to pressure. Going on Jamies Point, in the warmer weather nitrous will tend to work allot better than it would in the winter due it reaching its optimum bottle pressure (nitrous bottle getting to temperature). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suprafan72 Posted July 1, 2007 Share Posted July 1, 2007 Jesus guys, you need to find a new mapper!! N02 is not uncontrolable. It's only a question of boost and controlled supply. Please quote me if im wrong guys!!! But surely nitrous pressure can be variant if the bottle does not get up to pressure.. So you are taking a gamble to a degree if the bottle is not up to pressure.. hence the need for an accurate nitrous pressure gauge!! So getting the perfect fuel/nitrous mix can be very hard to do especially with are very changing weather conditons. Of course the ideal would be an ecu that could control the nitrous/fuel supply, with reading a nitrous pressure sensor... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted July 1, 2007 Share Posted July 1, 2007 Please quote me if im wrong guys!!! But surely nitrous pressure can be variant if the bottle does not get up to pressure.. So you are taking a gamble to a degree if the bottle is not up to pressure.. hence the need for an accurate nitrous pressure gauge!! So getting the perfect fuel/nitrous mix can be very hard to do especially with are very changing weather conditons. Yea basicly, it needs to be mapped in with the bottle at full pressure so you are covered on the street, best way to use nos imo would be to have a seperate map on a switch which lowers the boost a tad and retards the ignition before the nos is activated, that way you would not have to worry about the boost spikes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustGav Posted July 1, 2007 Share Posted July 1, 2007 The nitrous pressure gauge ONLY measures the pressure of the gas head within the can. Nitrous is supposed to be injected as close as possible to a liquid. The bottle has an internal straw, and this is the reason the bottle is put at an angle. The idea being the gas head is bigger, once the bottle heater is on, it will heat the bottle creating more pressure in the gas head, and thereby forcing the liquid into the pipework and finally into the engine. The nozzle jets which you install are a restriction and as such regulate some of the pressure issues out. A blanket is a bit of a tarty thing at normal levels since the jets are so small (50-200shot). In big drag racing engines where they empty a 13lb bottle in one hit, then maybe heating the bottle helps. Nitrous isn't a rocket science (well, depends if you know the twisted sanity boys or not *grin*)... but simple theory applies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted July 1, 2007 Share Posted July 1, 2007 best way to use nos imo would be to have a seperate map on a switch which lowers the boost a tad and retards the ignition before the nos is activated, that way you would not have to worry about the boost spikes. The AEM has this feature for exactly that purpose, at the flick of a switch nitrious can be activated along with fuel and ignition correction maps, there is also nothing to stop you configuring the same switch for low boost setting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustGav Posted July 1, 2007 Share Posted July 1, 2007 The AEM has this feature for exactly that purpose, at the flick of a switch nitrious can be activated along with fuel and ignition correction maps, there is also nothing to stop you configuring the same switch for low boost setting. Out of interest, does the AEM support a progressive controlling of the nitrous solenoids? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted July 1, 2007 Share Posted July 1, 2007 Please quote me if im wrong guys!!! But surely nitrous pressure can be variant if the bottle does not get up to pressure.. So you are taking a gamble to a degree if the bottle is not up to pressure.. hence the need for an accurate nitrous pressure gauge!! So getting the perfect fuel/nitrous mix can be very hard to do especially with are very changing weather conditons. Of course the ideal would be an ecu that could control the nitrous/fuel supply, with reading a nitrous pressure sensor... From what I understand the ECU should be able to read the N02 pressure and apply that to a pre-defined map (configured by your mapper). Since the pressure in the bottle is controlled by heat and gas pressure it shouldn't make any difference to the supplied volume with regard to heat or the amount of gas you have left - otherwise, if it didn't when the tank reaches half full, it the ecu would continue to *think* it has twice the N02 input as it actually has. As mentioned, it's all about mapping and proper control. N02 cannot be blamed in ANY way for boost spiking. EDIT - darn you guys, way too slow again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suprafan72 Posted July 1, 2007 Share Posted July 1, 2007 There could be a seperate thread raised here, whats most safest, a wet or dry nitrous kit..... I know the wet kits tend to be more affective, but they tend to be more prone to failure (i.e fuel solonoid failure) where dry kits rely's on fuel pressure... I do agree with Homer's comments that it is down to the mapper on doing a good fuel/ignition correction mapon nitrous activation.. the ideal would be to have contstant ideal bottle pressure (i.e bottle electric blanket to maintain the ideal pressure) and a map to suit nitrous activation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted July 1, 2007 Share Posted July 1, 2007 Out of interest, does the AEM support a progressive controlling of the nitrous solenoids? There is a spare PWM output but the basic activation I think is done by just turning it on or off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLicense Posted July 1, 2007 Share Posted July 1, 2007 Out of interest, does the AEM support a progressive controlling of the nitrous solenoids? Yes it does. It has a user definable PW output. This is basically a solenoid controller that can be set to control absolutely anything you want it to. You can also have it set as a direct on/off as Wez mentioned. There are seperate fuel and ignition modifier tables, and various settings to dictate when the nos should come in / out. Edit- Doh Wez beat me to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustGav Posted July 1, 2007 Share Posted July 1, 2007 Yes it does. It has a user definable PW output. This is basically a solenoid controller that can be set to control absolutely anything you want it to. You can also have it set as a direct on/off as Wez mentioned. There are seperate fuel and ignition modifier tables, and various settings to dictate when the nos should come in / out. Edit- Doh Wez beat me to it. That would strike as being the best way to control the nitrous system then. Use one of the switches inputs to activate the system. The new map will be activated, as well as having a PWM to do progressive control. This would allow a bigger jet system to be used, as well as linking it into the traction control map, so the nitrous could be used or removed depending on traction. This would also allow a more controlled hit, saving engine wear/damage and such like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustGav Posted July 1, 2007 Share Posted July 1, 2007 This may sound odd (and no disrespect to anyone as I don't know), but do any of the tuners that play with the AEM in this country have access to all the functionality? (This is just an honest question), as I seem to remember the AEM software had a HUGE range of functions, but I've not heard of people using them. EDIT : Busy downloading the AEMTuner 2.2 software, just curosity really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted July 1, 2007 Share Posted July 1, 2007 This may sound odd (and no disrespect to anyone as I don't know), but do any of the tuners that play with the AEM in this country have access to all the functionality? (This is just an honest question), as I seem to remember the AEM software had a HUGE range of functions, but I've not heard of people using them. There is no lock on any functionality, everyone can access every feature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suprafan72 Posted July 1, 2007 Share Posted July 1, 2007 This may sound odd (and no disrespect to anyone as I don't know), but do any of the tuners that play with the AEM in this country have access to all the functionality? (This is just an honest question), as I seem to remember the AEM software had a HUGE range of functions, but I've not heard of people using them. Well ive got the software on my laptop and yes it does have a huge range of functions and is certainly the Budget option of some of 5h3 MOTEC ecu's...(and has nearly about as many features as the MOTEC ecu... Speaking to Dan about some of its features, he does seem clued up about what the ECU can provide.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustGav Posted July 1, 2007 Share Posted July 1, 2007 Just had a quick look at 2.2. It links into things like knock sensors......now wouldn't something like that pick up det running on the engine and throw up an error? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 All this talk of nitrous, but i seem to remember it was said that it was not being used when the engine let go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 Just had a quick look at 2.2. It links into things like knock sensors......now wouldn't something like that pick up det running on the engine and throw up an error? The software has always had this feature which is why in my earlier post I asked if it was enabled Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Class One Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 All this talk of nitrous, but i seem to remember it was said that it was not being used when the engine let go. I believe you are correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLicense Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 Setting up the knock detection strategy is quite difficult though. It basically requires the user to run the car with no det and log the vibration that the knock sensor receives. The system then uses that log as a baseline, and any (user definable) additional vibration detected by the knock sensor is determined to be det, and then user definable actions can be taken. The key is you have to be able to run the car with no det to start with. For this reason it's still a necessity for the engine mapper to set the car up initially using det cans, and then set the knock sensors up once the car is running correctly. Then if the car starts to depart from "normal operation" for any reason the knock strategy comes into effect. As Dan hadn't finished mapping the car, I doubt very much he had got to the point of turning the knock routine on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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