arnout Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 Hi Guys, I was completely sick of cracking tubular manifolds. I've had bad experience with some of the very well known manufacturers, as well as the el cheapo units. Furthermore the tubular style manifold doesn't fit one of my nicest rides (mk3 supra with 2jz) so I had to install a cast manifold there. I bought the manifold from Dimitri at Directed Engineering and he helped me with email support back in the days I installed the kit. Unfortunately I couldn't get the turbo to boost any steady pressure as I had a giant boost creap with my SP57 turbo. The manifold needed a lot of porting and so I did. After a full day of porting and another half day reinstalling I had my car ready and it was very fun. I did some work on other cars, for example the one from Flavio on this forum, on who's car we changed the cracked tubular manifold to a cast manifold with 'added welds' to support the porting of the wastegate hole. After a few weeks he came back to me to do some other job on his car which involved removing the manifold again and after a visual inspection it turned out the welds were already cracking off the manifold! My own car was lacking a turbo kit and I was completely done with the cracking tubular manifolds and the boost creaping / weak design cast (toyomoto & turbonetics) manifolds so I designed my own manifold for my own car to get rid of all the problems we had in past. My own improvements to the turbonetics manifold were the following: - Bigger wastegate hole, at least 2 inches - Other wastegate flange to support with 3 studs instead of 2 - easier mounting (the inner two nuts are only reachable with an open end wrench) Dimitri from directed engineering mentioned he would optimize the manifold with the following: - bigger manifold to allow for less turbulence at higher RPM So I took this whole plan to a casting company and they made me ONE manifold!!!! Yes people, ONE manifold, can you believe that? I feel like the single turbo cast manifold king now This manifold should fit the newly acquired SP67 turbo in my mk3 body and have all the plusses I need to compete with the great guys. Here are some pictures of my project, let me know what you guys think! I hope to install it during next week or week after. This is the first picture I made. You can see the added volume in the manifold clearly. http://www.supras.nl/iB_html/uploads/post-2-21816-2jmanifold_009.JPG My manifold (on the right) is ticker: http://www.supras.nl/iB_html/uploads/post-2-21910-2jmanifold_001.JPG Here you see what is left after porting (not enough metal to seal the gasket properly). On the front my manifold with a 3 bolt design, and a huge 2 inch wastegate hole: http://www.supras.nl/iB_html/uploads/post-2-22086-2jmanifold_005.JPG Yes I have to resurface the gasket faces and also drill some holes. Not a big jobby, I can do that myself! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digsy Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 Jesus H tapdancing Christ! You had a foundry make you a one-off? How ever much did that set you back?? Nice work! What did they work from? What material is it made from? How many can they get from the tooling? Which foundry did you use? I'll probably think of some more questions later, but in the meantime, well done once again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supragal Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 Wow! Top job, chrazzeeeee guy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 Arnout, you are a true enthusiast. It's not a trivial job or investment. Looks nice, and well thought out. Respect to you. But will it fit a MKIV? As a matter of interest I'll take some photos of my Skyline R33 cast manifold (Apexi one). The Apexi manifold is good, the wastegate support those is very iffy, and needs re thinking. I am glad someone else shares my opinion of tubular manifolds available commercially. They can be made to NOT crack, but the cost would mean no one ever bought one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 I'm still on the lookout for a cast manifold. Would you be able to get another made Arnout, and if so how much...? I've been waiting most of the year for the Induction Motorsports kit to be released which has now been sold to Prolex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnout Posted October 12, 2004 Author Share Posted October 12, 2004 hi Chris, Obviously it was made to fit the mkIV. The cast manifold from turbonetics / toyomoto which I used to develop from fits the mkIV and also it did fit the mkIII. This newly designed manifold should fit the mkIII and mkIV also (both 2JZ engines of course). I haven't tried it yet, cause the manifold is not ready, but I will soon when I get the manifold with the mounting holes etc.etc. Send me some pictures of the R33 manifold, that would be cool. Maybe we can work something out there also. Digsy: I didn't make this one manifold to break-even or what so ever. I was just tired of the cracking tubular manifolds. I've seen so many manifolds now and they ALL crack. No matter which manufacturer they will ALL crack. Yes, even the manifolds sold for 200.000 yen (~ 1200 quid) those crack ALSO. Also a tubular manifold is nice starting FROM 600 RWHP. If you don't aim that high, I would really install a cast manifold as it will outperform the tubular manifolds in all and every way. The turbo will spool faster due to less volume to be pressurized, also your under bonnet temperatures will stay cooler. You have more space in the engine bay. The list goes on and on. The process I used was just regular sand casting of the manifold. I had two molds, one for the inside of the manifold and one for the outside and they casted the manifold using that. Obviously they can make hundreds of it, but currently my aim is just a well designed manifold for my OWN car to put down some decent DYNO numbers and show the rest of the world that CAST manifolds are here to stay and TUBULAR manifolds are here to BREAK! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnout Posted October 12, 2004 Author Share Posted October 12, 2004 Originally posted by Nick I've been waiting most of the year for the Induction Motorsports kit to be released which has now been sold to Prolex. Induction motorsports did the welding on the manifold we installed on Flavio's car. Here is a picture after only 1000 miles of driving! Yes guys, that is 3 fill'er-ups. http://www.supras.nl/iB_html/uploads/post-2-21157-lanting2jz_280.jpg Need I say more? It's already showing 'break-off' troubles. There is no way to weld decently on a cast manifold. Also the two bolt design of the wastgate flange is totally inferiour and will not survive evolution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 I am active on a metallurgy forum, and have always meant to ask just how the experts think the stock 2JZ-GTE TT mainfold is welded. have you noticed how the flexible bellows section is apparently TIG welded in? Really neat and I have NEVEr seen one crack. I'd love to know the specs of filler rod and method used. I'll get some pics of my Apexi manifold later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 I have the induction motorsport manifold on my MKIV and have not yet had any problems with it. That said I have not yet run over a BAR of boost on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnout Posted October 12, 2004 Author Share Posted October 12, 2004 We have installed TWO induction motorsports kits and on BOTH kits we had problems. The kit on flavio's car blew the gasket of the wastegate flange after 2000 miles, half way this (1000 miles) we already discovered the cracks in the manifold welding. Another customer of mine, Frank, blew the wastegate gasket at 1000 miles. Both are running high boost figures (1.2bar+) and Frank did the install himself, so the kits were installed by two different persons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 So you don't want to produce any more and recoup some of your costs? Fair enough, it's your manifold, you can do as you please! The trouble you've had with the IM manifolds is rather worrying though and I'm glad you've shared your experiences with them. Prolex are releasing the kit at the end of the month but I don't know if they've improved on the manifold design and construction.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnout Posted October 12, 2004 Author Share Posted October 12, 2004 Originally posted by Nick So you don't want to produce any more and recoup some of your costs? Obviously I WILL produce this manifold, but currently it's slightly to early to make any real estimate on costs, timeframe etc.etc. Also there is NO kit currently. It's just a manifold, that's it! Maybe I will design a kit around it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 Originally posted by arnout Maybe I will design a kit around it. I thought that might be the case Chris Wilson can get all the pipework fabricated for me and supply the turbo, wastegate etc. All I'm missing is the manifold and I've been on the look out for a *proper* one that's not going to crack for quite a while now. Thanks for sharing your work and drop me a line when you are ready to supply either a manifold or a kit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulrenn Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 Nice one Arnout! You guys should all check his supras.nl site if you haven't already done so - here's a man that eats, sleeps, and breathes Supras Hey if you know of any more LHD MKIV's Arnout, give me a shout. I saw a black one for sale in NL but its an auto (zzzzzzz). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MicHELLo Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 @paulrenn: the black auto supra is already sold And any Supra in Arnout's hands is in good hands, also mine! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnout Posted October 12, 2004 Author Share Posted October 12, 2004 If the car is nice I would still buy it; I've converted two LHD mkIV's automatic to manual. Easy job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 Originally posted by arnout If the car is nice I would still buy it; I've converted two LHD mkIV's automatic to manual. Easy job. Arnout, whats the hardest bit of this conversion job in your opinion? (The transmission tunnel needs adjusting/welding doesn't it?) If you had all the required bits, what approx labour cost do you think this should cost? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnout Posted October 12, 2004 Author Share Posted October 12, 2004 The hardest bit is finding a good deal on a complete six speed, driveshaft, axles and differential setup! The rest is just plain 'a lot of work'. But it's pretty straightforward and if you're known to supras you can do it easily. The whole transmission tunnel is just a drill, a big hammer and some guts to hit it. Mounting you need a way to mount it securely and some sikaflex. The previous conversions I've done all ran into around 7000 euro incl. parts and incl. exchange (I got the auto box and auto diff). It all depends on the price you have to pay for the 6 speed and diff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 cheers for that, much appreciated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul -C- Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 Arnout, do you know my friend Markus de Beer? He had his auto converted to manual over there in holland! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnout Posted October 12, 2004 Author Share Posted October 12, 2004 Originally posted by Paul -C- Arnout, do you know my friend Markus de Beer? He had his auto converted to manual over there in holland! Yes that was the 2nd Supra I converted to Manual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest markus Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 that's me still working fine thanks Arnout, keep up the good work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnout Posted October 14, 2004 Author Share Posted October 14, 2004 Originally posted by markus that's me still working fine thanks Arnout, keep up the good work Seems like Markus is getting this single turbo manifold also.. maybe even sooner than it's going onto my own car! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest markus Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 nice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnout Posted October 17, 2004 Author Share Posted October 17, 2004 T88 too big for markus? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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