s3upra Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 One for the tech bods. Have read alot and experienced(in the wet) the limitations of the stock traction control system,when it cuts in it prety much cuts all power. My question is-if this is purely down to the intake butterfly valve closing(i may well be wrong),could the butterfly valve be modified (cut away) i.e. still let some airflow through,as opposed to stock-where it closes completely.Hence reducing power rather than cutting all power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 The stock Trac system dates back to the stoneage, it just doesn't have the complexity of modern day traction control to be effective. If you want an extremely capable, up to date traction control system, fit the Racelogic Traction Control (RLTC), very popular with members. Details here: http://www.racelogic.co.uk/?show=Traction_Control Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s3upra Posted June 12, 2007 Author Share Posted June 12, 2007 I realise it dates back to the stoneage, I also know i should fit rltc. Just wondered if my theory was sound and would work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 Depends if you have an auto or 6spd. Edit - just checked your garage. It's an auto so not advisable to mess about with the trac butterly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s3upra Posted June 12, 2007 Author Share Posted June 12, 2007 Depends if you have an auto or 6spd. Edit - just checked your garage. It's an auto so not advisable to mess about with the trac butterly. I understand the Auto gearshift/Trac issues-harsh gearchanges etc. But as everytime i get in the car,i turn off t/c (is that bad?)-on an auto. Wouldnt this idea work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 If you're okay with the harsh gear change, simply unplug (and remove) the Trac ECU. 2 minute job and easily reversible It saves having to hit 'trac-off' every time you get in the car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 If you're okay with the harsh gear change, simply unplug (and remove) the Trac ECU. 2 minute job and easily reversible It saves having to hit 'trac-off' every time you get in the car But don't do it if you have a VVTi - if you do the FBW throttle won't work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s3upra Posted June 12, 2007 Author Share Posted June 12, 2007 Sorry Homer,im doing a bad job of making myself clear- i dont want to disable the trac permanantly,i dont really want to press the trac off button everytime i drive the car either(though i would like to hear your opinion on weather or not this is a bad thing to do) I was asking if its possible/sensible to reduce the size or the trac valve so that it does not completely shut off all power. If it allowed say 30% flow instead of none,it would still restrict power,but would not cut ALL power. The auto box would still change gear as usual-i assume? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandan Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 Try it and see. There's plenty of auto owners with trac butterflies removed and I remember someone recently saying they thought their changes were a little smoother after they did it. Homer - are you speaking first hand when you mention the harshness everybody talks about? You could mod the butterfly to be more eliptical to when it's fully shut there's still 25% or so flow area. One thing to bear in mind - you'll probably have to drill the butterfly screws out and that would mean refitting or retrofitting a normal one would not be just a screwdriver job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 Homer - are you speaking first hand when you mention the harshness everybody talks about? No, it's not based on any personal experience, only on feedback a few have posted on here before. Perhaps s3upra can provide first hand feedback with the simple removal method described before? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s3upra Posted June 12, 2007 Author Share Posted June 12, 2007 mmm-was kinda hoping someone was going to say "what a brilliant idea,i did it it works perfectly!" I was thinking of "trimming" the stock butterfly valve down by a percentage (as above).To retain the stock T/C system but reducing its effect when it kicks in. Would this still give harsh shifts? I was assuming this would be easy-couple of screws out,remove flap,grind a bit off,stick it all back together and declare myself a genius. Seems im deluding myself-as usual. Thanks everyone for help so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 mmm-was kinda hoping someone was going to say "what a brilliant idea I nearly did say that last night. I can;t believe somebody didn't thinkj of it before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobSheffield Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 I nearly did say that last night. I can;t believe somebody didn't thinkj of it before. I thought of it when i removed my trac butterfly, BUT its not an exact science is it? What if you remove 10% and its not enough, or remove 20% and its too much for example. Granted you can use trial and error but for the hassle, and the fact that in my experience i have had the car slide on turbo 2 and the TC hasnt batted an eyelid meant i went RLTC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobSheffield Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 I was assuming this would be easy-couple of screws out,remove flap,grind a bit off,stick it all back together and declare myself a genius The main issue is that they are very soft brass screws so you need to carefully drill them out, remove butterfly, Thouroughly remove swarf, mod butterfly, fit new screws, refit throttle body. Not as easy as it sounds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesG Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 mmm-was kinda hoping someone was going to say "what a brilliant idea,i did it it works perfectly!" I was thinking of "trimming" the stock butterfly valve down by a percentage (as above).To retain the stock T/C system but reducing its effect when it kicks in. Would this still give harsh shifts? I was assuming this would be easy-couple of screws out,remove flap,grind a bit off,stick it all back together and declare myself a genius. Seems im deluding myself-as usual. Thanks everyone for help so far. Seems to me you'll get harsher shifts and worse traction control response (which is already quite poor). I don't know if the traction control retards the ignition as well. It doesn't sound like a good idea to be messing with such a safety-critical system. If it is fully disabled, at least you know where you stand! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 Start small and work up I guess I spose it's gonna be better than removing the whole thing howevermuch he removes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 Seems to me you'll get harsher shifts and worse traction control response (which is already quite poor) Worse how? Some power is better than SFA, which is what the stock system leaves you with as you're turning right in front of that bus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s3upra Posted June 12, 2007 Author Share Posted June 12, 2007 ok maybe i will give this a go,unless anyone comes up with anymore ideas on why this is a really bad idea! Please look out for my future thread-entitled "My engine just inhaled shattered bits of Trac butterfly-help" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 ..I don't know if the traction control retards the ignition as well... It does. I've timed mine with TC fuse off an on, and you only gain the odd tenth of a second. Not worth the harsh gearchanges in my view - if you're full throttle and make good power, the gearbox ain't gonna love you:eyebrows: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colsoop Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 i see your thinking, but IMHO it sounds like a lot of hassle for not much gain. I doubt you would be able to get the butterfly out without drilling it out (the screws are so soft) Then you have to file the original down a small amount, then refit and test. How about increasing the size of the small grub screws that limits the amount of movement the trac butterfly can go through, that way you could stop it from fully closing ? Although that may spring up errors with the sensors ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henk Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 I know I am no where near as techie as some of you guys but I have to put my £0.02 in here. The stock traction control is not shit on pre-facelifts! Last night classic example; driving to the Karting (needed to overtake some cars to catch the convoy) driving in pouring rain, on slightly muddy surface (thanks to road works) floored the pedal. Got a very nice totally controllable fishtail motion and yes that was totally floored to 1.05 bar to 6000+ rpm in second & third (OD turned off). The traction control did not "cut all power" or any of the other complaints that are constantly trotted out everytime this conversation comes up. (Does mine actually work? Yes it was tested, my TC works just fine, fully enabled) Either my car has some amazing MOD I am not aware of or you need to review your tyres / wheels etc. etc. because I don't get this stuff happen to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colsoop Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 I know I am no where near as techie as some of you guys but I have to put my £0.02 in here. The stock traction control is not shit on pre-facelifts! Last night classic example; driving to the Karting (needed to overtake some cars to catch the convoy) driving in pouring rain, on slightly muddy surface (thanks to road works) floored the pedal. Got a very nice totally controllable fishtail motion and yes that was totally floored to 1.05 bar to 6000+ rpm in second & third (OD turned off). The traction control did not "cut all power" or any of the other complaints that are constantly trotted out everytime this conversation comes up. (Does mine actually work? Yes it was tested, my TC works just fine, fully enabled) Either my car has some amazing MOD I am not aware of or you need to review your tyres / wheels etc. etc. because I don't get this stuff happen to me. it tends to be at junctions etc where you dont have any momentum where it is most apparent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bignum Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 it tends to be at junctions etc where you dont have any momentum where it is most apparent Yes that, also on uk`s the traction system applies the rear brakes:blink: , scary on track, thats the 1st thing i switch off after the stereo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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