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The mkiv Supra Owners Club

Greddy e-manage vs HKS F-CON V PRO


rob wild

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Hi just a quick question I’ve been looking at getting a piggy-back ECU and I’ve been looking at the Greddy e-manage which seems to a popular choice, but a mate of mine suggested the HKS F-CON V PRO. Which is better or are they about the same? I've also been advised that the HKS F-CON V PRO with the supra harness can just be plugged in and it will start work straight away without set up, is this correct?

 

Cheers for any advice guys!

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Originally posted by leett

what if i said i can get a second hand unit for less than £100?

 

Buy it and sell it on Ebay for a profit :)

 

I think my F-CON was around a grand and then another 800quid or so for the harness. I can't really remember now, it was nearly 5 years ago.

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I would never, ever, even in my wildest dreams, buy an ECU for which software is not available to the end user. It's not available for the HKS ecus. it is (I believe) for the e-manage, but that's just a signal fudger. in my book real ecus start with the Apexi Power FC, for which none official software is available from Datalogit. They only do one for early six speed manual J-Spec cars though. Then theirs the AEM, another ecu that virtually just plugs into the stock loom and uses mainly stock engine sensors. Then you come on to what I call the proper, modern ECU's like Motec, DTA, MBE, and then the high end stuff, well, it doesn't matter `cos they'll cost more than the car did :-)

 

 

Make no mistakes buying an ecu is the cheap and easy bit, expect to spend a lot more than the ECU cost price on having it mapped PROPERLY. I have yet to drive or even see a MKIV with aftermarket ECU that's mapped, IMO, properly

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A signal fudger is good enough for a road car if it's a competent enough bit of kit doing the signal fudging - discuss :)

 

I personally think that a blank ECU is overkill for a road car. You make the point, Chris, that the ECU is the cheap bit - mapping is what really costs. Keeping the stock ECU covers a lot of the tedious stuff still - cold start, various load idle-ups, open and closed loop stuff blah blah, and the signal fudger can, if enough time is spent mapping it, give a good, safe, powerful result on a road car.

 

I make the distinction "road car" because I know a signal fudger wouldn't go within bargepole range of a racecar :)

 

And by competent signal fudger I mean the E-Manage :D Having experience mapping with one, I now wouldn't touch the AFC, it hasn't got anywhere near the amount of load sites it needs, neither has the ITC. OK, Dude's car runs very powerful with this combo, people have different requirements and so forth, but I personally wouldn't touch it.

 

I must send you the stuff I've got on the E-Manage Chris, I've got some useful datalogs as well to show how well (/adequately :) ) it can deal with the fuelling.

 

-Ian

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Before you buy an HKS FCON try and see how much support they offer, you may be disappointed. Datalogit have an active and technically astute mailing list for buyers of their software to map the Apexi Power FC, although support from Apexi is probably effectively none existent as the power Excel software they supply is dealer only. My advice is any ecu is only as good as its support from its makers or hackers, and secondly, as good as its technical ability allows it to be.

 

Ian C: You have this all wrong, a race car is easily mapped, it doesn't need to idle well or for long, poor or temperamental cold starts are acceptable, even expected, idle up for A/C or PAS load isn't an issue, nor are emissions. They are childs play to map compared to a road car expecteed to drive similar to a factory mapped engine!

 

It's no good saying a fudger will allow you to keep the factory maps for cold start, acceleration, blah blah. A heavily modded car (bigger turbo(s), different cams, different compression, any "worthwhile" mods will render these factory maps redundant.

 

Still waiting to see / try a well mapped, heavily modded MKIV that drives close to stock, and allowing for the fact the mods themselves may compromise drivability ;)

 

This Skyline has proven a PITA to get a decent stable idle from on suddenly closed throttle. Turns out that the Power FC is unable to do the business, if you want I can supply a link showing one mans attempts (good attempts) to sort this relatively simple sounding issue out. It could make grown tuners weep, imagine all the other gotchas the manufacturers have to iron out before a car drives as we now expect!

 

I am not knocking fudgers, you, or anyone else, just telling it like it is, if you want a really good map in all areas.

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Chris

 

I don't disagree at all. I was extremely lucky with my Blitz ECU matching the mods I had, albeit I had to use an AFC to reduce the injector pulse width at idle. It ran like stock off boost and and like a missle on boost That said with a single turbo or similar fitted I know it would not have been so good

 

Mark

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have a look at these aem videos from horsepower freaks site. they seem to have no problems with setting up a big hp car with 272 cams. no lumpy idle and the 6 speed drives like a stock car.

the viper video is good too.

the aem seems to be the choice in america. just not as popular over here. the f con seems to be popular on the skylines.

 

have a look at these videos

 

 

HorsepowerFreaks Supra AEM Video

 

 

HorsepowerFreaks Viper AEM Video

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Originally posted by Chris Wilson

Still waiting to see / try a well mapped, heavily modded MKIV that drives close to stock, and allowing for the fact the mods themselves may compromise drivability ;)

 

Oooh, I like a challenge :)

 

Some bugs are livable with - I currently have a slightly lumpy idle that only smooths out after a run because the stock ECU's closed loop doesn't seem to handle big injectors and wide cams that well - it makes too coarse an adjustment and oscillates between rich and lean too much for a smooth idle. Not much of a problem there in my opinion though. However, something cutting out on fast throttle closing would be a nightmare, I agree. The stock sequential map is a bastard to map around due to the sequential transition point but me and Matt are getting there. However, a perfect standalone ECU map is an order of magnitude more expensive and perhaps even then an unattainable goal - like you say, you've never seen one yet :D

 

I'm gonna have to spend some serious time fettling mine now and then pay you a visit and see how much more fettling I didn't know it needed :p

 

-Ian

 

PS Volvo video ;) Nice to know you're still a big kid at heart :D

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Problem with going standalone is that lose the ability of the stock ECU to pull timing when it detects DET , never was this better highlited than when the Race fuel was put in Matt H's car , it gained a phenominal amount of power due to timing being thrown in and not pulled back out by the knock sensors , the other - point is that on autos IMO the only safe way to control them changing is via the stock ECU . My car makes more than enough power on an AFC and ITC but i will prob change to an E manage for extra safety over the winter .

 

Dude :flame Dev

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did you download them videos i posted up. they got a viper to idle great. if you know what you doing with mapping it sounds a top bit of kit. i fancy going with an aem. pete at thor racing will get to grips with it. its a big thing deciding what ecu and electronics to go with. you dont want to get it wrong.

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Originally posted by MONKEYmark

[b. you dont want to get it wrong. [/b]

 

thats why i wont be using an AEM !!!!!!

My car is capable of running very low 10's on its current set up , what time do you think it will run by spending £3K on a standalone ?????

Now that £3K lets me buy enough internals to run over 2.5 bar , now what time will i run ???

Forget AEM too many fu***d gearboxes and engines for my liking

 

Dude:flame Dev

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Originally posted by MONKEYmark

will the turbo be up to a very low 10 or high 9?

or will nos help it on its way?

 

you seem to be doing good so far.

 

Due to Turbo size the NOS would help it spool off the line , the turbo is more than capable of running in the 9's

 

Dude:flame Dev

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  • 5 months later...
Guest Terry S
Still waiting to see / try a well mapped, heavily modded MKIV that drives close to stock, and allowing for the fact the mods themselves may compromise drivability ;)

 

.

Well anytime you want to come down for a demo Mr Wilson......:thumbs:

 

Come on Chris, make the effort ;)

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This Skyline has proven a PITA to get a decent stable idle from on suddenly closed throttle. Turns out that the Power FC is unable to do the business, if you want I can supply a link showing one mans attempts (good attempts) to sort this relatively simple sounding issue out. It could make grown tuners weep, imagine all the other gotchas the manufacturers have to iron out before a car drives as we now expect!

 

The e-Manage can handle that (if it's what I think it is) - it's cause of the AFM's just like on my Single equipped VVTi with an Atmospheric BOV.

 

I can WOT, dip the clutch and release the throttle and it will regain it's idle no problems....it didn't used to, till we enabled a certain feature on the eManage...cunningly called antistall.

 

But that doesn't help you if that's not the cause. :)

 

I'd like to try one of the Autronic's one year... :violin:

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