West Ham staying up? Should they?

[SUPRASUZUKI]

Discuss.

[couv3z]

oh course they should who wants Wigan and sheffield in the prem,

 

and at least west ham can score at united(i would say win but there still 30mins to go)

[Ian R]

because to many clubs in the prem are London clubs at least Charlton are down. Would like W/ham to stay up though as will be a great escape.

[Trig]

If they beat Man U on the last day, when they have to win, they deserve to stay up. But would like to see Sheff Utd stay up....

[SUPRASUZUKI]

oh course they should who wants Wigan and sheffield in the prem,

 

 

 

 

Wigan and Sheffield fans I guess.

[Havard]

Isn't this thread a little premature??

 

H.

[SUPRASUZUKI]

Isn't this thread a little premature??

 

H.

 

 

No.

[Havard]

No.

 

Oh alright then!! I was hoping that Wigan would get relagated but nevermind......

 

H.

[SUPRASUZUKI]

I wanted west ham to go. I reckon the premiership bottled it fining them instead of docking points.

 

Nothing against west ham fans of course, more against those in charge.

 

I just hate cheats.

[Havard]

I wanted west ham to go. I reckon the premiership bottled it fining them instead of docking points.

 

Nothing against west ham fans of course, more against those in charge.

 

I just hate cheats.

 

How did they cheat? Apparently all their paperwork was correct it was the agent who sold Tevez who was dishonest!

 

Also docking them points would have been really harsh I think. they have brought a player over from South America. Surely a certain amount is lost in translation??

 

H

[SUPRASUZUKI]

How did they cheat? Apparently all their paperwork was correct it was the agent who sold Tevez who was dishonest!

 

Also docking them points would have been really harsh I think. they have brought a player over from South America. Surely a certain amount is lost in translation??

 

H

 

I don't know the detail mate. I assume they were in the wrong hence the £5M fine. Fine's don't hurt teams, point penalties do.

 

This says to me that you can do what you like if you can stand the fine.

 

Imagine a situation where Chelsea decided to the same "we'll play who we like, just tell us how much you want for the fine and we'll pay it".

 

I think it sets a precedent.

[Havard]

I don't know the detail mate. I assume they were in the wrong hence the £5M fine. Fine's don't hurt teams, point penalties do.

 

This says to me that you can do what you like if you can stand the fine.

 

Imagine a situation where Chelsea decided to the same "we'll play who we like, just tell us how much you want for the fine and we'll pay it".

 

I think it sets a precedent.

 

Possibly..... I don't know all the facts except for what was put in the press, so that could all be bollocks too!!

 

The fact that Travor Brooking was on the FA panel may also be a factor......

 

H.

[CJ]

How did they cheat? Apparently all their paperwork was correct it was the agent who sold Tevez who was dishonest!

 

Also docking them points would have been really harsh I think. they have brought a player over from South America. Surely a certain amount is lost in translation??

 

H

 

West ham knew full well that the deal with the 2 Argentinians was illegal as they were owned by a third party thus breaking the rules. The paperwork sent to the FA and premiership may have seemed to be correct but that was doctored - hence the big fine.

 

To my mind, they should have had the points docked for any games that either of the Argentinians had played in as in effect, hey chould not have been available.

[Havard]

West ham knew full well that the deal with the 2 Argentinians was illegal as they were owned by a third party thus breaking the rules. The paperwork sent to the FA and premiership may have seemed to be correct but that was doctored - hence the big fine.

 

To my mind, they should have had the points docked for any games that either of the Argentinians had played in as in effect, hey chould not have been available.

 

Well if that is the case then point deduction of some sort would have been fair. I am still on the fence about this as nobody really knows all the facts. Unless you work at either West Ham or for the FA Colin??

 

Personally, I don't give a sh!t as Spurs finished 5th and therefore Sheefa owes me and DamanC two pints each!!

 

H.

[Robert]

West ham should have been docked points, if you can't get docked points for having illegal players on the pitch then what can you get docked points for? its not like tevez hasen't had a big impact on results. How the FA can justify a £5+ million fine and not take points away is madness. No one can say West ham didn't know because how the hell do you buy 2 world class players and not know the paper work is dodgy? Wonder where the money from that fine went...

[DrivingTheDream]

£50 million-That's what Sheff Utd have lost and West Ham have gained by breaking FA rules. I know the rules might be petty and stupid but Tevez was an illegal player, and the player that has kept them up.

 

Hope the FA get their arses sued.

 

I remember Boro getting docked points and going down a few seasons back-It cant be one rule for one...

[Havard]

I remember Boro getting docked points and going down a few seasons back-It cant be one rule for one...

 

Yeah, I was going to refer to that too, but it did piss all over my argument!!

 

H.

[mattanna]

Not a fan of any of the teams, but fact is Sheffield have not played well enough to stay in the division, deducting points from west ham would not change this, if you pay to go and see games you want to see teams that are good enough, and a fine of 5 mill whether or not they can afford it is 5 mill less they have to spend on players

[DamanC]

West ham should have been docked points, if you can't get docked points for having illegal players on the pitch then what can you get docked points for? its not like tevez hasen't had a big impact on results. How the FA can justify a £5+ million fine and not take points away is madness. No one can say West ham didn't know because how the hell do you buy 2 world class players and not know the paper work is dodgy? Wonder where the money from that fine went...

 

 

 

should have been docked points and for that they would have gone down. Nothing against west ham but that should apply to any team imo.

[SUPRASUZUKI]

It's not about who goes down, it's about the punishment fitting the crime and being a deterent to others.

 

£5M is no deterent to some clubs.

 

Some would argue west ham stopped up by fielding 2 ineligible international standard players. Points docked would have fitted the crime better IMHO.

 

I can't see it going to court though.

[Gordon F]

I just hate cheats.

A bit harsh no?

Funny how nobody gave a monkeys about the legality of the transfers after West Ham couldnt win in 10 games after the players arrived and had another 12 game winless streak (apart from an FA Cup win over Brighton), after beating Man Utd in Curbishley's first game at Upton Park. Everyone seemed happy when we (season ticket holder ) lost 6-0 at Reading or when we were 10 points away from safety a couple of months ago, also Mascherano only played a handful of games, and I dont remember winning any of them.

The premiership clubs should be encouraged to go out and recruit the top international players in the world - the fans pay enough to get through the gates to see them.

West Ham deserve to stay up. They won that right on the field, as it should be.

[IDO]

 

We got enough point to stay up.. harsh some might say, but if the playes paperwork was that dodgy why did they let us keep playing him and why was nothing said when Liverpool bought one of the players off us??

 

I for one (another season ticket holder) think we done well to win so many games of late and it helps to make up for the utter tripe i've been paying to watch most of the season..

 

but its always nice to take 6 points off the reds and the gooners in one season....

[SUPRASUZUKI]

A bit harsh no?

Funny how nobody gave a monkeys about the legality of the transfers after West Ham couldnt win in 10 games after the players arrived and had another 12 game winless streak (apart from an FA Cup win over Brighton), after beating Man Utd in Curbishley's first game at Upton Park. Everyone seemed happy when we (season ticket holder ) lost 6-0 at Reading or when we were 10 points away from safety a couple of months ago, also Mascherano only played a handful of games, and I dont remember winning any of them.

The premiership clubs should be encouraged to go out and recruit the top international players in the world - the fans pay enough to get through the gates to see them.

West Ham deserve to stay up. They won that right on the field, as it should be.

 

 

 

No mate, playing ineligible players (ringers?) is cheating. Hence the £5M fine.

 

I've nothing against the paying fans like you. I used to pay good money to watch my team struggle, so I know how painful it is.

 

I look forward to seeing what happens when Chelsea do it, win a major hounour and Abramovich just says "yeah, yeah, whatever. How much is the fine. Just let me pay and I'll be on my way". There will be uproar.

 

Points docking is the only deterent.

[CJ]

Being a Leeds fan (I know, I must be crackers eh), I am struggling to see how all this is worked out?

 

As you may be aware, Leeds recently went into administration thus getting an immediate 10 point deduction. Now, to my mind, any club that goes into administration isn't cheating (although the way we did it was not the best example) but simply either bad financial management or a series of circumstances beyond control and yet the FA deem that to be an offence that warrants a points deduction.

 

Now if bad financial management warrants a points deduction then surely lying to the Premiership and blatantly cheating must also warrant that if not more.

 

Now, before others come back and question if they were truly guilty etc, bear in mind that they pleaded guilty to the charges already.

[Lukeyboy2k]

I think the whole situation demonstrates what a laughing stock the Premier League and the FA really are. Here are my thoughts (in no particular logical order):

 

1) The whole potentially "illegally signed player" issue has been common knowledge for months, yet the situation was "sorted" a few weeks before the end of the season - it should've been done earlier or when the season had finished. The Tim Howard issue (slightly different I know, but along similar lines) was sorted in a few hours.

 

2) The fine is a p*ss take. That amount of money won't hurt any PL side.

 

3) West Ham have been playing better recently, so they do deserve some credit - but how sickening some people (especially Sheff Utd fans) will find the fact that Tevez has scored and set up the majority of the goals that kept WH up in the last few weeks.

 

4) Its not the players or fans fault but I think WH should have been docked points. I think certain people definitely knew there were irregularities the whole time. WH should be relegated.

 

5) Trevor Brooking (sp?) - rubbish player, annoying rose tinted spectacles, speaks nonsense. (Almost as funny as Phil Thompson). How the hell did he get such a position of influence in the FA? Madness!

 

6) Boro were relegated ten years ago because they didn't field a team against Blackburn. There were not enough fit registered players to make a team. The FA were informed, guidelines were followed yet a 3 point deduction was given and Boro went down by 1 point (I think?) The WH situation seems far more deceitful IMO - which punishment hurt the most?

 

7) I think a club should try and borrow a few world class players for a few games and then see if they get points docked (maybe a £5.5M fine would be more just ) next season.

 

8) I'm gutted WH stayed up. I find it really dull how so many people keep saying that they're a good footballing side and entertaining. I think they've been a very mediocre side for the last 15 years (as long as I've really been following football). The main gripe is that I really dislike their kit colours also.

 

*Waits to be flamed by WH supporters*

 

I think the Leeds administration thing is also a little questionable. It seems to me like they have done it to clear a huge amount of debt, and the points deduction will be meaningless (I think they should've been taken off next season). Although to be fair, going into administration seems to be less of a crime IMO than dodgy player ownership. No logic with the punishments.